Rodney:

Thank you very much for making this point. I deliberately left this sit overnight to see if there would be any response from the community and to make sure that I was not replying from an emotional perspective.

I also made a point of going to a meeting of a New York group called The Society of Enlightened Entrepreneurs last night and it was during the meeting that I came to clarity on what to do.

Tom, Richard: Your interests, naturally, lie with the companies you work for or own. My interests lie with TheChocolateLife community. You may disagree or dislike the decisions I make about how I run TheChocolateLife, but they are my decisions to make. At every point I am going to consider the needs of the entire community - as a global entity, which includes my wants and needs, by the way - over the wants of manufacturers and distributors.

Last night,I made the decision to close this thread to further discussion as it had drifted so far from the original poster's question, not because I am trying to "censor" Richard's or Tom's discussions on whether or not I am being "fair" to them. Tom and Richard, Rodney is right: This is a discussion you need to take up off-line. TheChocolateLife is not a place to air the relative merits of your equipment, company's viewpoints, or anything that is not directly applicable to the discussion at hand. I also want to let you know that any continuation of this discussion at any level in any other public posts on TheChocolateLife will be looked upon very negatively.

You can, of course, take this up with me privately; I know you both have my e-mail address.

:: Clay

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To all,

Just form a side-line, this whole discussion is not really interesting to be honest. So could you please do this off line? I guess you know how to find each other?

Best regards from a remote Amsterdam

Rodney Nikkels

To Tom, not sure what you are talking about Tom, we have sold in the past a few machines, JKV 27 years ago, Moldart, a few here and there for last 15 years, and Chocotec Wheel Machines, which we made in Edmonton ourselves for 10 years, sold over 170 of them, before closing that assembly and transferring assembly of last few machines to Bakon USA. Aside from that, I have bought and sold some ACMC machines at Qzina, and purchased for various factories that I have owned over the years machines from Chocoma, Neilson, Carle & Montanari, and Sollich, but never re sold or represented them. I do however consider myself an expert on chocolate machines, and have 30 years experience working with literally thousands of customers who use all kinds of machines, coupled with extremely extensive chocolate manufacturing background, including pure chocolate processing, molding, and much more. We recently began carrying the Pomati line, which is the first and only machine of this style we carry or have ever carried, and I believe they have an exceptional range, and through our network of 7000 customers using chocolate, I am certain they and others will appreciate our investment in this offering. Although Clay does not get commission, he has not approached us, and I am not sure what you have with him, but it seems there is some confusion about what this site is really about, benefits to Clay, his sponsors, or open sharing of information from people with experience whether for fun, enthusiasm, passion, or even some financial benefit. I don't see this site as a mechanism for the latter in my case, but rather as one of many avenues available for everyone to share opinions and perspectives. If your perspective on Qzina is at we change flags, perhaps your information is sensorsed or filtered and you don't have he facts straight because of that. I wish you well with Selmi but you are not the only supplier of this style machine, so I look forward to some sporting competition. Too bad your first contact with us on this matter was in fact "wrong" and you stand corrected, our flag flies high and proud with Pomati.

To Richard,

Sorry and correct me if I am wrong but I think that Pomati is not the only brand that you represented in the past, isn't it ? It's important to stay credible in the brands (in this case tempering machines) that you represent and it's impossible to change flags regularly.

Good luck

Tom

Dear Tom I will send you an email by tomm. Thanks for the reply

Richard:

Your comment is tantamount to my walking into your new center in Irvineand complaining, after you pull down flyers I have posted on your walls- loudly and to everyone who might be in your showroom at the time -that you won't let me sell competitive products in your place of business.

Furthermore, imagine my walking in and, when a prospective customer asks a question about a Pomati (or some other brand you sell) machine, I start talking up the virtues of a brand you don't sell.

What would your reaction be? I don't think you'd be very happy. You'd probably usher me out of your place of business and demand that I never come back. And, as the business owner,you would be within your rights to do so.

TheChocolateLife is my on-line place of business. It may be a small business in terms of the revenue it generates, but it's a huge business in terms of global reach and influence. My perception is that you want to unfairly take advantage of my place of business by not abiding by policies you and I have discussed offline.

Qzina is a multi-million dollar business and I have a policy on TheChocolateLife that businesses that are in the business of selling products and services to confectioners and chocolate makers have to pay to promote them. We discussed this last summer in Washington, DC when we met during the Fancy Food Show.

You are right, I did delete several posts where you promoted the Pomati tempering machines you are now representing. BUT - I did it BEFORE I had a relationship with FBM. I deleted the posts because the content was inappropriate in the context of the original poster's question. I believe that I wrote you an e-mail at the time, explaining why.

You will see that I am NOT "censoring" Mr Bauwerarts' responses because he is actually an employee of Selmi and is responding to questions about Selmi machines. The same is true for responses from Brian Donaghy, who used to be employed by Tomric, the US dealer for Selmi.

You will notice, if you care to look, that there have been several recent discussions about ChocoMa and Perfect tempering and enrobing machines. You will also notice that I have featured ALL of the Qzina Institute classes and events at your new school ... all the way forward to October. (I also do this for BAKON.)

What I object to, Richard, is your perception that I owe you anything . You are attempting to reach the members of my community to sell them products and services. It is my policy to ask companies like Qzina to pay me a very modest amount for granting access. I do this so I don't have to clutter up the site with advertising banners that are irrelevant and intrusive.

I have no objections if you respond to direct questions about Pomati machines. I have no objections if you supply answers to technical questions about other tempering machines and say how Pomati does things differently. In other words, I have no objections if what you post is relevant and adds value to the discussion at hand. I do object if you see your response primarily as an opportunity to sell - or cross-sell - something.

If you want to promote Pomati or any other brand(s) Qzina represents then I respectfully request that you comply with my commercial policies. You can promote any and all Qzinaproducts - in the Classifieds. Classified ads cost $10 each or $100/year for up to 1 post per week. Or you can take out a Member Marketplace ad and/or Sponsor a group . You can also work with me to provide things of value to ChocolateLife members that compensate me via success fees. I would have no problem if you and I organized a series of classes in Irvine, we jointly promoted them, and I was compensated to give the classes. We talked about this specifically last summer, but I didn't pursue it because you wanted me to assume 100% of the costs and risk for promoting "my" events at your school (ignoring the fact that I would be promoting your school at the same time).

It's clear that you want to reach ChocolateLife members because you recognize that the community is a valuable one that's very highly focused and contains a large number of potential customers. What I want to be equally clear about is that I have worked very hard over the past four years growing TheChocolateLife to its current position and scope, and over the prior seven years on chocophile.com and on my writing and promoting my book, Discover Chocolate . Qzina is a business that you have worked very hard to grow. I know, from talking with you directly, that you are very careful not to let other people and companies "take advantage" of the hard work you've done without your being compensated appropriately.

All I ask is that you think of TheChocolateLife - and me - in the same light. I cannot, and will not, allow you to take advantage of TheChocolateLife to grow your business without directly recognizing - in monetary terms - the value of my business and my expertise, experience, and network, personally. And I object to your characterization of me publicly and without any notice as being a really cheap shot.

Membership in the community is free and voluntary. If you don't want to play by the house rules, you are free to not participate in the community.

:: Clay

PS.For your information, I do list the companies I have financial relationships with right on the home page of TheChocolateLife immediately under the Groups section at the top. It may not have been obvious enough, so I edited it to make it more obvious.

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Dear Devika,

Would it be possible to send me again the mail to t.bauweraerts@selmi-group.it. We have sometimes the problem that mails get into our spam account frequently.

Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

Tom

I have lots of machines to offer but Clay just keeps deleting my posts every time I mention it. We sell melters, wheel machines, and Pomati machines, but no commission to clay so I guess nobody here will ever know. Clay, you are clearly controlling content to hour own benefit not the benefit of the membership. At least be up front about it.

Dear Tom

I have been trying to contact selmi on the email on its website as well sent an email to your id few months ago but got no reply. I am looking to find if you have distributors in India ? my email id is devika.kandhari@gmail.com

Tom:

If you take a close look, you'll see that I actually refer THREE companies' temperers, melters - Selmi, Chocovision, and Bakon, and have commission relationships with all three (Selmi through Tomric in the US). I have referred the sale of a Plus in 2011 and have, when the situation arises, directly notified Tomric of technical questions about Selmi equipment they might want to answer.

I currently do not have a relationship with FBM, though we are working in that direction.

Each of these companies offers products at different price points and capabilities.You will see that I represent both Irinox and Desmon. Both offer similar products, but again, at different price points and capabilities.

I try to be as aware of the technical competitive differences as I can; if I make a mistake in how I represent something it is from imperfect knowledge, not a preference of one brand over another. I try to take into account, as best I can, what someone's needs are and make the best recommendation I can. I would be more than happy for Selmi to bring me to the factory in Italy to get up to the minute training on your products so that I can speak about them from a position of first-hand knowledge.

For nearly four years, now, I have chosen to keep TheChocolateLife virtually free from advertising. I do offer advertising, sponsorship, and referral programs that make sense for the communityit somehow has to be related to chocolate. That's how I earn the money to keep TheChocolateLife operating; paying for the direct, hard costs of keeping the site and community open, operating, alive, vibrant, and growing and not a whole lot more.

I am always open to comments about where my product and technical knowledge is imperfect. In this way I can grow - and the community can grow as well.

:: Clay

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Dear All,

I notice that Clay has become a reseller for certain machines. A pity because I thought that the creator of 'The Chocolate Life' (which is great) should not take any sides and should only advise correctly on machinery. We invite you to learn about the difference between FBM and Selmi. We invite you in our factory to come and have a look to our machinery that we make. You can also visit our website on www.selmi-group.it where we recently added some videos on other machinery that we make. OUr standard range has always been 4 types of tempering machinery and now we have the EX models. With these models you can was the archimedian screw completely because you can easily take it out. Also the other parts can be washed completely, so no chocolate stays in the system.

If you see a system of removable screw, please ask the seller to do a demonstration on this how easy it is. It is easy to make a removable screw, but with some other brands you need to be a technician to put it back.

I understand that sometimes people do not believe me, because I am the export responsable of the Selmi factory, but I ask them always before to buy, to test first all the features of the machinery very well.

The purchase of machinery in the chocolate business is very important and we are very well aware of this. We are making a lot of tempering machines yearly and we have in the US a great reseller that can give the service after sales locally and they also offer training sessions on the Selmi equipment.

I also want to make the people aware about the small machinery and the enrobing belt. How many chocolates you cover with an enrobing belt on a tempering machine of 7 or 8 kgs and another question is the space where the chocolates are covered and the time before they go on a belt is really short. where is the excess chocolate going in this short period. We think for this investment it's better to work by hand and safe money for a machine that helps you to earn money.

check it out and let me know if you have any further questions.

Regards

Tom Bauweraerts (t.bauweraerts@selmi-group.it)

The machine is set for 220VAC 3-phase 50 Hz. It is possible to kit the units at the factory a 220VAC 60 Hz single-phase motor or to use a static phase inverter that you purchase on your own. The price, ex-factory is 9700 Euros, including the enrobing belt, which is 180mm wide. Crating (100 Euros) and shipping (depends on destination and method) are extra.

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@DiscoverChoc

I believe the FBM machines also have removable/reversible augurs to make them easy to clean.

Depending on your production volumes, FBM also has a small tabletop machine (the Aura) that is inexpensive enough to be dedicated to white chocolate production. It has a 4kg work bowl and 10kg/hr throughput and offers continuous as opposed to batch operation and has an integrated vibration table.

The next FBM machine up offers the same throughput as a Color EX, but is less expensive while offering the removable/reversible augur and three-zone temperature control instead of the two zones in a Selmi, offering more control over crystallization.

I can offer discounts on FBM machines to ChocolateLife members - maybe enough to make it possible for you to purchase both machines for close to the same price as one Selmi Color EX.

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Dear Matt,

Although I don't know the color ex (we have the selmi one system, the smallest). I definitely would buy a machine that can be opened and cleaned, and the Color Ex is such a system. We need to flush the machine and cocoa butter doesn't work because the pump doesn't pump pure butter, it is too liquid. So you'll loose the first 1-2 kg while changing chocolate. This is quite inefficient and I would wish we had bought the one with the removable srew. From the reseller I understood that it's quite simple to remove and clean it. For the rest the Selmi works excellent I must say, but perhaps others do as well.

Best regards,

Rodney Nikkels

Chocolatemakers, Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

Hello everyone,

Sorry if this has been covered before but I couldn't find the answer.

I'm currently looking to buy atempering machine for my startup. I live in SouthKorea and have access toSelmi,Gami, FBMbrand continuous tempering machines.

I need to change between white/dark/milk chocolates on a daily basis and prefer this process to be as conventient as possible. l'd alsoprefer to buy only 1 machineto save on costs. The COLOR EX model has caught my interest since its advertised with a removable screw for cleaning? I've contacted some other brands and they told me I'd have to clean the machine and flush it with cocoa butter to change from milk -> white, etc.

I'd like to know how easy it is to change chocolates with the COLOR EX model. How long does it take? is some chocolate wasted? What are the steps involved.

Any help would be appreciated, thank you

updated by @matt-c: 04/10/15 12:45:13