What conche for roll refiners?

rogerio
@rogerio
09/11/15 08:11:58AM
5 posts

Hi,

I am currently choosing the machines for a new bean to bar factory, and my first choice for refining and conching wolud be melangeurs (Cocoatwon 65s). But the import taxes here in Brazil are crazy expensive, and I need to find some options.

I am thinking about a three roll refiner, which I can find relatively cheap here, but my question is about how to conche the refined mixture afterwards.

I am considering a planetary mixer with heating, another unexpensive choice, but I have no idea of the efficiency on the volatiles reduction and so.

Anyone with experience?

Thanks,

Rogerio.


updated by @rogerio: 09/11/15 08:12:31AM
Sebastian
@sebastian
09/13/15 06:20:13AM
754 posts

it'll work ok, but there's simply not enough energy input for that to be of much use from a flavor modification or serious emsulsification standpoint.  I've had many of these built, and they work alright, but certainly are not best in class.

 

Another alterantive you may wish to consider might be a z-blade mixer that's been jacketed for temperature control.

 

What quantities are you looking to make, and what characteristics are imprtant to you? (ie lower fat chocolates, dark chocolates, milk chocolates with flavor development, etc?)

rogerio
@rogerio
09/13/15 06:12:32PM
5 posts

Hi Sebastian,

 

Thanks for your comments. I am thinking 1metric ton/month capacity. The flagship will be ~70% cocoa contents, and I intend not to use any lecithin or other emulsifiers. Milk and other inclusions are possible, but I assume my most difficult recipe will be the two ingredients one.

And I agree with you, the Z-blade seems a more "traditional" approach for a conche. The problem for me is to find one small (and cheap) enough.

 

 

Sebastian
@sebastian
09/14/15 09:55:37PM
754 posts

Rogerio - ah, cost is always an issue, no?  if i can get the messaging system to work i'll send you the name of a company that makes good small sized z blade mixers, they're not as conventional as you might think, but work well.

Peter3
@peter3
09/14/15 10:00:02PM
86 posts

Have you looked at used machines at sites like wolf machinery, raymond travel (they have a second hand 20kg conche/refiner at this moment, this is not the best machine to make good chocolate)?

There may be somebody selling second hand machines closer to you.

It's a little hard to translate what you mean by cheap enough as scale and costs differ around the world.

 

 

You may find out that milk chocolates present more of a challenge than dark ones.

I would be interested in why you don't want to use lecithin? It's a vital ingredient in chocolate making.

rogerio
@rogerio
09/21/15 11:08:39AM
5 posts

Hi Sebastian, (sorry for the late response, I was at a entrepeneurship training, and was really not available)

I am actually looking exactly for second hand machines, and even considering cosmetics/farmaceutical ones. Unfortunatelly, importing to Brazil right now is hardly an option. The currency lost almost 50% of its value to the US$ (and thus to every important currency) the last 18 months, making imports virtually impossible.

On the other hand, I did research some machine suppliers here, and found a couple who can build a 50-100kg Z-blade conche. I am waiting for the quotes. What these companies should do is to take advantage of the currancy situation and try to export FROM Brazil...

And about the lecithin, one of my sales argument will be a two ingredient chocolate, so I have to deliver a recipe without it. But I am not closed to use it, depending on the response of my public. What I definately do not want to use is PGPR, since at least an "all natural" argument would be lost.

Best regards,

Rogerio.

 


updated by @rogerio: 09/21/15 11:09:00AM
Logan Byrd
@logan-byrd
10/12/15 10:54:28AM
8 posts

Sebastian,

I would be interested in learning the brand name of the z blade jacketed mixer, if you wouldnt mind sharing it. I am looking for a conching solution as well.

Thanks

 

Sebastian
@sebastian
10/13/15 09:52:58AM
754 posts

Sorry guys, didn't see the updates until now.  I can't for the life of me figure out how to send you a pm here, perhaps you could message me and i'll give you my thoughts.

Logan Byrd
@logan-byrd
10/13/15 10:38:54AM
8 posts

I cant figure out PM either. My email is byrdeus(at)gmail.com.

rroman
@rroman
02/28/17 02:57:07AM
4 posts

I am interested in a z-blade mixer but don't know where to start looking. Can someone help me out with a company that makes them. I would prefer somewhere in China since the tax would be cheaper for me

rroman
@rroman
02/28/17 04:19:16AM
4 posts

I am interested in a z-blade mixer but don't know where to start looking. Can someone help me out with a company that makes them. I would prefer somewhere in China since the tax would be cheaper for me.

and, how long does it usually take a z-blade mixer to conche?

rroman
@rroman
02/28/17 09:57:33AM
4 posts

What is a "normal" conching time with this?

Potomac Chocolate
@ben-rasmussen
02/28/17 10:13:22AM
191 posts

I've never used one, so I don't know.  :)

Clay Gordon
@clay
03/03/17 02:54:00PM
1,680 posts

Sebastian:

Rogerio - ah, cost is always an issue, no?  if i can get the messaging system to work i'll send you the name of a company that makes good small sized z blade mixers, they're not as conventional as you might think, but work well.

Sebastian: I think others might want to know!




--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
clay - http://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/
Clay Gordon
@clay
03/03/17 02:54:50PM
1,680 posts

Sebastian:

Sorry guys, didn't see the updates until now.  I can't for the life of me figure out how to send you a pm here, perhaps you could message me and i'll give you my thoughts.

Sebastian - to reduce spam, you need to follow each other first.




--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
clay - http://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/
Clay Gordon
@clay
03/03/17 03:03:01PM
1,680 posts

rroman:

What is a "normal" conching time with this?

How acidic are your beans / liquor?

Also, as Sebastian says you are going to want to heat the chocolate in the mixer and be able to control the temperature. And, having forced hot air is going to be a good idea.

The Kleego conche I helped develop for FBM can control the bowl temperature to 60C and the hot air (about 100 cubic meters/hour) up to 70C. It is vertical, has counter-rotating stirrers, and a pump to transfer chocolate from the bottom of the working bowl to the top so that all of the chocolate is processed. With the heat on high you can conche very acidic chocolates flat in under two hours. However, people tend to use them hot for a short period of time in the beginning and then cool things down when much of the acidic aroma has evaporated off. Typical conching times are under 2.5 hours for a 35kg batch. It has a melting capacity of 50kg and can also mix many recipes.




--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
clay - http://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/
Black Eagle Chocolates
@black-eagle-chocolates
03/16/17 08:20:00AM
11 posts

Hi guys. I am also looking at ordering a kleego 50. What has the feedback been like.  Starting out so would really like to spend money wisely. My first batch of beans were definitely bit acidic. Regards

Clay Gordon
@clay
03/16/17 10:49:32AM
1,680 posts

Black Eagle Chocolates:

Hi guys. I am also looking at ordering a kleego 50. What has the feedback been like.  Starting out so would really like to spend money wisely. My first batch of beans were definitely bit acidic. Regards

The Kleego - which I helped design - is the only real conche this size on the market. It was designed to take a standard max batch size out of a CocoaTown 65 (~35kg) and is based on a 50kg melter (which it can also be used for). The Kleego offers the ability to control the heat of the working bowl, the heat of the forced air, and the speed of the bottom bowl stirrer, giving the chocolate maker a great deal of control over the finished product. What the Kleego is not is a refiner. While it will break up particle agglomerates and make sure all of the particles are coated with cocoa butter, it will not continue to reduce particle size.

There are about 100 Kleegos installed around the world, and some installations have more than one. If you want to see how one works, we can offer you a steeply discounted seat in the next class at the Jean-Marie Auboine school at the end of May.




--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
clay - http://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/
Black Eagle Chocolates
@black-eagle-chocolates
03/29/17 08:32:37AM
11 posts

Hi Clay

Thanks for the response. I have placed my order already. Sorry for the ignorance but what is the Jean-Marie Auboine school and where is it situated? Im based in South Africa but would consider travelling if its worth it. Thanka again

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