Hi Giovanni,

I am from Ecuador and I think I can help you in regard to cocoa national and CCN51, if you want, you can write me to dissupp@yahoo.com and have the pleasure tocollaborate with you.

@Clay - Nice to meet you - great backstory.

Yes, I deal with that issue on a daily basis. Most folks just don't want to know the details, and I have to sometimes force myself to not become the "Grim Reaper of TMI."

@Glenn be in touch later tonight.

Cheers, David

David:

Thanks for bringing up an interesting point. The whole idea of Fairtrade (or Fair Trade) is that there is an independent agency who vouches for the practices of the actors in the supply chain.

While I know Felchlin very well (and happen to be the person who introduced the owner of the Hacienda Elvesia where the beans for the 74% Cru Hacienda are sourced to Felchlin) and I can similarly vouch for their standards when it comes to bean sourcing, at the consumer level (not at the level of the truly knowledgeable chocolate professional) people are looking for the Fairtrade (or "Fair" trade) certification so they don't have to think.

So while you and I may know what Felchlin's practices mean, the consumer wants to see the logo and no matter how hard you try to convince them that it doesn't apply - they won't listen. They need to see the logo.

Of course, it's because they don't have to think that the value of the certification is so easily undermined, but that's another issue.

:: Clay

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@DiscoverChoc

David,

I'm always interested in new organic products. You can reach me at glenn@gemchocolates.ca. I checked out the website, nice. Can you send me some product info and pricing, please?

Thanks,

Glenn

Hi Todd,

I rep for Felchlin on the West Coast. We carry their 74% Organic in bulk rondo. Felchlin has very high human rights standards, well above FairTrade levels. Please check out www.felchlin.com for more info. Please let me know if I can be of any help.

Cheers, David

products: bittersweet chocolate and cocoa powder

amount: 200-400lbs chocoalte and 100lbs pwdr at a time

timeline: tbd

delivery: to my plan in PA and net 30

Anything else let me know

Thanks

Check your distributor of Belcolade chocolate. They carry some organic Fair Trade certified couverture in bulk.

what products you need

how much of each

product specs

timeline

delivery / incoterms / payment terms desired

anything other detail you can think of

saludos

brian

I appreciate the assistance. What info would you need from me?

thanks
I knew thattheyuses a lotccn51in Peru,but I thoughtonly forconventionalcocoa.I will try toget moreinformation.

I know that the cacao they use is 70% or more ccn51. i also know that they have organic cert., i just saw the certificate hanging in their office a couple days ago. Here in Peru ccn51 is grown organically in the areas i work in, so presumably can be and is in the areas naranjillo works in. i honestly can't speak to how effective or accurate the organic certification is here, or whether naranjillo is separating organic from non-organic really strictly, but ccn51 is grown without chemical inputs here in peru, i've seen it personally.

brian

Hi Brian

I boughtorganicliquor fromnaranjilloseveral timesand I am waitingnow anew arrival.It's agoodcocoa.But nowI want to know, asyou say, ifin factthey also includetheccn51, andare certifiedorganic.In EcuadorIlearnedthatonlynational isorganiccertified,while theccn51was not possible.

Grateful forany informationyou canprovide me

hi guys, i see i wasn't clear, i was referring specifically to naranjillo's FT cocoa powder in my first response. naranjillo does make chocolate but itspretty sweet stuff for the domestic peru market, not really anything for a more discerning market. right now they have a bunch of what they call 55% couverture which is 35% cacao, 20% cocoa butter, 45% sugar, and the cacao they use is mostly ccn51.

my impression is that while they want to get into exportable quality chocolate, for now they specialize in butter and cocoa powder, which as clay says appears to be pretty good quality. their factory is modern and well run. I'm meeting with their manager in lima monday on another matter, if you like todd send me your data and needs, i can give it to him and you can judge for youself if you want to consider them based on his response.

just so everyone is clear i have no affiliation with naranjillo, i have no monetary interest in todd's decision, i offered to help as a professional courtesy, nothing more.

brian

Thanks for all the info. I would definitely be interested in exploring your connections Brian. That being said I'm only interested if it is good, high quality chocolate. We are a premium brand so while FT is important I would not chose it at the expense of lower quality. Let me know what you think.

Brian:

I responded because I have seen and tasted product from Naranjillo. While I would not buy the chocolate they make for domestic consumption, the liquor, powder, and butter are of good quality.

They can make chocolate to spec but the minimums are at least 5 tonnes, as I recall, based on my last conversations with them.

They mean well, but I fear it's the nature of co-operative management in Peru, Bolivia, and elsewhere.

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@DiscoverChoc

what clay says is correct, doing pretty much any business in peru requires speaking spanish, spending time in peru, and having a top notch customs person. customer service is generally poor to non-existent here. working with a peruvian supplier only over the phone from the us is dubious.

i haven't worked with naranjillo, just been to the factory and know them, so take what he says well in mind todd. i know they make the product you're looking for, and can make an introduction if you want.

bh

From personal experience, I can tell you that working from the US with Naranjillo is extremely difficult. Customer service did not exist as a concept in their English vocabulary.

Plus, Naranjillo didn't have (as of about six months ago) any export capability for finished and semi-finished products to the US.

Maybe things have gotten better in the last six months or so. In any event, I would not want to work with them unless I had a representative in Peru, fluent in Spanish and in business customs, handling the Peruvian end of the business for me. I can't recommend doing it remotely.

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@DiscoverChoc

hi from peru todd, i just replied to sacred steve about a similar query. i was in a factory today that produces literally tons of organic FT cocoa powder, and there are other options here in peru as well. the production quality is very good. the beans are mostly ccn51, conventional, notat the high end of fine and flavor, but not like african bulk stuff. I know everybody down here, if you want a connection let me know.

saludos

brian

Hi,

I'm looking to find a chocolate company where I can purchase both bittersweet chocolate and cocoa powder. I want it to be certified by a third party organization such as transfair, Rainforest Alliance, etc, or if not know that the company sources it's chocolate in an ethical and socially responsible manner. That being said I do not want to sacrifice quality to achieve the above. I'm also somewhat price sensitive as I'm using the chocolate and cocoa as a raw ingredient in my company's product(brownies) that we sell to retail stores, but hopefully my volume will allow for possible lower pricing. I'm open to any and all possible solutions so that I can get high quality, FT chocolate & cocoa powder into my product. We are a socially responsible and have been searching high and low for a product that fits our needs and budget. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Todd

updated by @todd-kelly: 06/29/23 16:49:02