Hi everyone, i been silent for a while (working hard). I just wanted to tell you that i´m in the process of getting the equipment for the lab. I took into account most of your comments and suggestions.
As soon i have everything set up and workin i´ll post the details.
Cheers!
That´s really helpfull Clay, i had a better impression from IMSA.
I´ll go with your advice, but ihave one question.
Melangers and similar, and ball mills, allow me to refine liquor over 35% fat/butter content.
But, what about the degreased cocoa under that fat content? for example, what is left from the oil pressing in a "Nutrachef" or similar press equipment? how can i refine it?
Caotech just gave me their response. Their ball mill needs a minimum fat/butter content of 30% to operate.
I forgot about something. They are planning to buy a refrigerator for tempering and keeping samples. I honestly don´t have any idea about the specifications of this equipment, i have only tempered by hand in Bogotá which is 20°C bellow from here.
Thanks!
Daniel and Sebastian, you both got me thinking.
Roasting: ill stick with IMSA, as i´m not allowed to buying equipment that needs modification. The legal advisor was very insistent with it.
Winnower: Same as roasting, not allowed to build machines or parts for machines.
Grinding: i was reading the specifications of the CAO B5, Caotech Ball Mill. Apparently it can refine, from cocoa powder to cocoa liquor and everything on the middle. I´m not sure about that, as i was convinced that ball mills were required for high fat content products (as cocoa liquor) and roll refiners for degreased cocoa liquor.
I was planning to use the disc mill for refining cocoa cake from the cocoa butter press, but that no longer seems necessary, same for the roll refiner.
But as it´s been repeatedly pointed out, i don´t know much about this, so i would like to hear about your experiences.
Tempering: As Sebastian said, i would choose to temper by hand, but there is a lot of politics inside this project; you are absolutely right, it has to work great, but it has to "look" great too.
I´ll get for me some premiers and the nutracheff oil press by July to try the number 2 option Sebastian mention. But that´s for me with my cocoa clones.
Hi everyone, my total budget is 260.000.000 colombian pesos, that´s about 80.000 dolars.
- Cocoa Roaster 5 kg per batch. Machine: ERTC-05 IMSA $10.300 Perú
This machine is programmable, INOX, has a cooling cicle and fumes extraction system among other stuff i find trouble translating.
- Winnower 15 kg/h IMSA Perú $6.300
This one is the smallest i´ve found.
- Disc Mill (no brand in particular) $1.000
- Cocoa Butter Press: I haven´t found any for $11.000 i think i would need to get a "kitchen" or domestic machine for this purpose. We just need 1 kg of cocoa butter a day and 10 kg of degrased cocoa liquor a day.
-Roll Refiner: Three Roll Mill Model T65 Torrey Hills Technologies $8.800
This is the smallest roll refiner i´ve found.
-Ball Mill + Conche 5kg per batch each. Caotech CAO B5 + CWC5 $33.000
-Tempering machine 5 kg per batch. Pomati T5
I think this one cost about $8.000, but i haven´t looked for any definitive machine.
With that money, i also have to buy hygrometers, refractometers, guillotine, therometers etc. But those aren´t hard to find. I would expect to spend no more than $3.500.
I´m open to suggestions, i can´t hire a professional or buy second hand equipment.
I just had to sit down and listen a legal advisor for two hours just for trying to change the budget they gave me, until he found a legal exit for doing this.
I really appreciate everyone´s contributions to this topic.
Thanks!!
Sebastian, you´re right. The main goals are to make some resarch, provide assistance to farmers and create a small chocolate maker and chocolatier programme as the institution i´m working for is the public learning service.
Thanks everyone, i had a chance to talk to my employer about the challenge of trying to set up a lab with fixed budgets and names.
They found a alternative way of purchasing the equipment (burocracy), but now i can chose the equipment and buy it directly.
i´m polishing the details, but for now i´m aiming for 5 kg per batch equipment.
i´ll post tomorrow the specific equipment i´ve seen until now.
You´re right, that would be the correct order to do this kind of stuff.
The thing is that my employer just gave me names and prices, for example:
Ball Mill 12.000 $
Laboratory Ball Mill 1.100$
And i already know that a laboratory ball mill could cost as much as a "commercial" one with 3 to 4 times the capacity.
The same situation goes for a roaster, roll refiner, butter press and other equipment that i don´t even recognize. Just to mention one, a "potentiometer". And no one in this institution can give me any info about what a potentiometer means, because the guy who ordered that stuff, with those names and prices, isn´t working there anymore.
So i´m taking a long shot with you, to see if there is a remote possibility that someone could know, where to get a new Laboratory Ball Mill (or any ball mill) for that price.
Thanks Daniel. Unfortunately it´s a government institution which requires the equipment and they are not allowed to buy second hand machinery. I´m checking FBM right now.
Brad, I don´t know if i got lost in the translation, but i'm feeling really insulted by your response.
I try to be polite in my limited english but if i ever insulted anyone, please let me know, i´m not aiming for that.
If you can´t say things nicely, please don´t.
Thank you!
Hi Clay
I don´t think a universal conche could give as much process control as a separate refining / conching process for a lab, please correct me if i´m wrong. This one is expensive but it would be my choice.
http://www.caotech.com/products/cwc-5/
Brad,
Thanks for your offering, is it possible to chat via skype? i´m suffering trying to make equipments fit what they gave me, i have a lot of questions.
I have a general question, i think i´ve read in The Science of Chocolate (Beckett) that it is generally better to reduce particle size gradualy in order to avoid a particle distribution with many "coarse" and "over refined" pieces, and so, i was convinced that ball mills should be fed with "liquid" cocoa liquor, but i´ve seen lately a lot of ball mills being fed by cocoa nibs directly with no replacement of the grinding media which makes me think that particle distribution can´t be the best in that process. Could that be truth? has anyone fed nibs directly to a ball mill?
Thanks Clay, i was writing in Word and then pasting it here. That was causing the error.
I found a "small" laboratory ball mill from Cacao cucina. I don´t know how much it cost yet, but I have a bad impression from Cacao Cucina from some forums and opinions.
Does anyone have any experience with them?
On the other hand, Caotech offers me 5kg laboratory conche and ball mill for about 12.000 euros each and i think they look great.
Any comments on Caotech? Caotech Vs Bühler ?
Hi everyone i could really use some help with some work stuff. i am recently working with some colombian institution and they want to set a state of the art cocoa and chocolate lab, wich i think it is great.
The problem is that someone who does not have a clue about that, already had some budget assigned to each equipment. My job is to find the specific piece of equipment and supplier that fits the name and price already assigned, and of course it is a huge pain ....
So, i would really appreciate if someone could help me with some specifics
Laboratory ball mill around 1 k
laboratory or commercial roll refiner mill around 10k
someone knows if there is a specific equipment and use for cocoa and chocolate for a potentiometer ? no more info
i know i am taking a long shot. i am aware that laboratory equipment is more expensive that commercial, but i am running out of places to look and ask about this.
i will take any suggestions and comments
PD. i know the spelling is not right, but i am having some error trying to post.
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I think that´s a great idea Clay, and we would love to have you here. I think it´s possible to join this event prior to the Cacao de Oro Colombia, and Casa del Chocolate Colombia, so everyone could experience more of Colombian cocoa.
Hi everybody, I would like to hear your opinion regarding a forthcoming cocoa event. We’ve been trying to make the arrangements since last year but we had to delay it several times due to severe drought.
It will be developed in a small town, named Garzón, in the central part of the Colombian department, Huila. We aim to asses several cocoa bean samples, from single farm origin, for their flavor profile to explore different flavors in this department and try to arrange the farmers who owns special flavor cocoa, with micro batch and small chocolate makers.
Some of you may have heard about other Colombian cacao origins such as Santander, Tumaco, Arauca or Sierra Nevada, but not Huila. Most cocoa around here is trinitario hybrids with criollo traits and some few criollos. Some farmers have clones, but the vast majority owns very old highly diverse cocoa plantations. This has been a barrier for development of Huila cocoa market since this variability poses a challenge for selling uniform cocoa beans in a significant quantity, every farm tastes very differently and even bean size varies greatly.
We would love to have some international clients and experts for this event, so I come to you for some advice.
First, the date could be somewhere between September and December of 2016 Our sensory panel is busy until September 11 and I’m aware that there are a lot of great cocoa and chocolate events on those dates so I’m open to suggestions.
About the duration, I’m thinking one day of a small public academic agenda and cocoa awards, and three to four days for the clients and experts to meet the farms and local cocoa production.
I´m open to every suggestion and I insist that it would be great to have some of you around here but keep in mind that this is a small event, focused on giving farmers a new horizon and meeting with possible clients. If you are a cocoa or chocolate expert, I would like to know your fees in a private message so we can discuss our budget.
We have support in English, French and maybe German. We would arrange transport and lodging from Neiva (Huila capital city) to Garzón. It is possible to reach Neiva in airplane (Bogotá-Neiva) but from there to Garzón there is only terrestrial transport (2 hours).
This event is organized by Fedecacao and Camara de Comercio de Neiva, and it is supported by Coocentral, Ministerio de Agricultura, Procolombia.
If you would like to contact me, please send me a PM and If you are interested in coffee, there is a lot to see around here too.
