Which Tempering Machine to Purchase: FBM, Gami, Selmi or Wheel type

Hello,

I am sure, this question might have been discussed many number of times. However, every customer has got it's own requirement.

Our 1st concern is: Machine should be Good in Working, Should be Easy to Handle, Operate, Clean and Should give best results.

Our 2nd important concern is: Machine should have longer durability for all parts. There should be a good Technical Support when required, Quick and Reasonably Priced parts. I don't know if i should focus on this or not.

Our 3rd concern is: Machine Accessories.

Budget $10000

We would like to know which machine we should go with:

Selmi One / Color Ex

FBM Compatta

Gami T260

Selmi Plus or Selmi Plus Ex (Only because of enrobber attachment)

Wheel Machines (say Mol D'art or Bacon USA or any other)

I have mentioned Selmi Plus only because of enrobber attachment. Otherwise i believe above mentioned FBM and Gami support enrobber attachments for the above models

I am simply confuse as which machine i should go with. We believe at a cost of $10000 we can only get automatic tempering machine with a capacity of around 10-15kg. Further some machine may not offer enrobber attachment which may be required in the future.

I have mentioned Selmi Plus and Ex above because they offer enrobber attachments from this machine onwards. In case, users recommend this, we can think of increasing the budget or the other way out is to buy small machine initially and then to go with a bigger capacity one once the business is established and good operations are there.

Looking for urgent replies from users.

Company owners / Distributors please don't participate in this forum.

Yes! There has been a lot of talk about this on this forum about the different types of machines out there. If you want an enrober attachment as well for around $10,000 then your only option is one of the entry level wheel machine such as the one by Perfect Equipment and I believe Bakon USA offers one as well. . You can get excellent results with these machines. You just need to understand chocolate. I own a Perfect Compact Coater, one of the cheapest machines on the market. I have written in depth about it on another post. It's under the discussion "What is your Dream Machine?" . A Selmi with enrober probably hovers around $30,000. It is a better machine in my opinion and is signifigantly more expensive. As for my machine, I get excellent support from Perfect in Quebec and have ordered parts when I needed it. I think all the companies you mentioned offer excellent support.

I would also like to add Bravo Tempering Machine and Pomati T8 / T10 in the above

Waiting for replies from Chocolatiers

Hi ,

im a chocolate maker and we do quite a bit of chocolate, bars and truffles/pralines.

I'm (not hiding, not a sale rep) a big fan of FBM. We have a Unica 25kg we running her flat out since almost a year. very little hiccups, simply fixed with a screw driver by me (you can check previous post on it).

just few days ago we did a temp calibration on the pc board, easy game.

Last, we noticed some issue with the tank temperature: a skype meeting, 2 days later the parts arrived free of charge and by my self i simply replaced it with FBM on skype with me all the time. Sure $10k wont be enough for a Unica.... but maybe a Compatta....

You have faced so many issues in FBM in a year... ?

Also, am i right, that it takes lot of time in the morning to start and lot of time in tempering the chocolate?

Hi Sam,

i disbelieve those are a lot of problems. I run the machine flat out and over the limit of production suggested by the manufacturer.

We have increased output thanks to this machine from 400kg to over a ton.

in effect more than "damages" it all has been "fine tuning" to my specification.

The machine was set up to "european" weather condition, i tuned to our conditions.

I asked to caliber all the thermostats because i'm very pedantic and obsessed with perfection. As well i asked to increase the performance of the tank (melting pot) with elements from a bigger machine so my "downtime" is shorten by 40%.

Most of the people would never try to do that or would never need to do that. We could say i turned a very fast motorbike to a racing motorbike....

In the morning it takes 20 min. to temper just by pressing a button.... you can also set up the machine to be ready even before you arrive to work.... but i like a cup of coffee with my staff when we start the day, so i don't bother with setting timers.

My 2 cents....

Cheers

Antonino

This sounds good.. Even i am finalizing FBM..

Waiting for more comments before i finalize..

Sam ~

We have a SELMI PLUS Tempering machine withSHAKER TABLEand ENROBER for Sale. It works perfectly and is in great condition.

~ PB Marshall

[ Moderator note: THIS IS OFF-TOPIC. The OP asked for information about machines, not about who had a machine for sale. This belongs in CLASSIFIEDS. ]

Any reasons for selling..

Sam ~

I'd be happy to discuss this with you. You can reach me at: (805) XXX-XXXX.

[ Moderator edit: PB - PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION. I am curious to know why you don't want to share your reason for wanting to sell it? The OP asked about impressions of various machines, so it would be helpful to share your impressions with the community.Just FYI, TCL is constantly spidered by Google, so phone numbers can end up in search results, so I deleted it.]

Hi, just out of curiosity,

is the Selmi plus a 12 kg machine? i have worked in the past with the bigger ones, but i was wondering if the small one are as good as the big ones.

Btw, i like to be clear that i'm not a FBM sale rep. I love their machines and i do not dislike Selmi... i just didn't like their customer service...

Still waiting for replies from chocolatier.

As far as my research goes, i believe only price is the factor between all these machines without taking into consideration the accessories. Rest all these machines are the same.

I am inclined towards FBM as it can support accessories. However, Selmi and Pomati looks more professional but they can't support enrober. However, enrober is not my requirement initially. So don't know whether i should buy FBM which supports enrober or buy a second machine later to get enrober equipment.

Hi Sam,

it seems that i'm on CHocolate life at the same time as you!

That Selmi machine are more..."beautiful" no doubts about it! the design is incredible!

Not sure about Pomati, never worked with..

Definitely they use the same concept, but the technology behind is complex and each of them have their own style. I have read in this forum that if a Selmi breaks (seldom) it is a lot of "computerized" things to change... The Fbm is more user friendly for maintenance, it is more mechanical orientated rather than sensor etc. (i apologize if i say something not 100% true, as i haven't taken a part a Selmi...no one would allow me)

Still all of them are made in Italy so i'm glad ( as italian) if you choose one of them.

I can only talk about experience:

When we bought the Unica from FBM, we got it with pneumatic depositor (the most amazing invention!) and with "the shower" accessory that allows you to do one mold (3 bars) in one single shot, but also chocolate drops and chocolate sticks.

Shipping is a big expense, i suggest you to consider if in less than 2-3 years you will need the enrober or not: things in business can change fast!

Like you, we thought that the enrober was not necessary at that time, but 2 months later i had to decline a biiiig contract because i couldn't do "enrobing" work!

Now we are in process of ordering another Unica and a Compatta BOTH with enrober, makes our life easier and we can increase our range of product to satisfy more clients.

We are going to do a product that has 2 coatings (dark and white) and we can (with the 2 enrober) finish the product in half of the time: out of the white..straight into the dark... No waiting time!

My opinion: the 3 companies make excellent machinery, I have chosen FBM for many reason. you should get what you think will make you happy working with it every day...

Cheers, keep us updated!

What kind of maintenance is required for FBM machine? For how long have you been using?

Haven't seen replies from people using Selmi or Pomati..

"Definitely they use the same concept, but the technology behind is complex and each of them have their own style. I have read in this forum that if a Selmi breaks (seldom) it is a lot of "computerized" things to change..."

This makes those machines more superior than FBM machines.

Sam,

i had a look at this tread: the only other person that has reply to you has been someone that want to sell you their machine without telling you why they want to get rid of it.

Usually the sale reps of all the company would have put their long emails about how good their product is!

Maybe others do not take the time to help you with your decision....

i'm here to put my 2 cents of experience with a machine i use, it is just a genuine comment as what i believe this forum is about: sharing information and help each other.

We had bought the FBM just a year ago. After 6 months of perfect working condition i started to get "itchy" and in collaboration with the Engineering dept. of FBM i have modified certain parameter of the machine just because i'm a crazy guy that like to bring a machine over the limit.... i like racing and because i do not have time to do track racing with my motor bike, i race everything else

Maintenance?

every now and then i blow with compressed air the elements, the cooling system and check that all the electrical connection are tight (if you understand engineering a bit you will know that electricity "vibrate" and heat expand /contract cabling so something, sometimes could get loose)

I check once a month that the cooling liquid is on level; i put a protective sheet on the computer board so it doesn't get dirty. That's all.

I guess if you have a car you do check tires and oil every now and then, no?

Compare to the others, i believe that replacing a -easy to find- temperature prob. is way easier to replace a computer transistor or an electronic board..

The concept is the same tempering concept for every one: a melting pot; a spiral that brings the chocolate up, a cooling system and a control system.... HOW they do it is very different. i can only tell you that the FBM ones suit me 110% otherwise i would be very stupid to buy another 2 and planning to buy their cooling tunnel (Custom made to my specs) as well in 1 years time.

Then as i said, you can buy a red Ferrari and be happy, i would choose a 911.....

Maintenance?

every now and then i blow with compressed air the elements, the cooling system and check that all the electrical connection are tight (if you understand engineering a bit you will know that electricity "vibrate" and heat expand /contract cabling so something, sometimes could get loose)

I had asked these questions with Pomati and Selmi and they wrote - Machine is maintenance free and infact Pomati even wrote, they have never got any complaint related to machine break down

C'mon Sam,
you have asked the sale reps NOT a Chocolatier that has bought the machine... Compare apples with apples before you make assumptions.
Of course someone that want to SELL will never say something you do not want to hear! Ask them if you can shower with the machine and they will say YES, of course!!
i'm not making money out of it, so you rather should ask FBM importer in your country...
You are taking my word and twisting it, by JUST using parts of the discussion making it sound bad and giving FBM a bad name, this is not fair to a excellent and world leading company and to me that has taken the time to respond to your request of help.
It also defeat the point of The ChocolateLife forum about transparency and real
-chocolate-life experiences.
If you believe that machinery (mechanical equipment) are maintenance free, do so. i believe in Father Christmas.
I never complained about FBM neither.
i can call them now and they will answer the phone. 2 years have past and i still haven't received a quote from Selmi.
But this is my story. not yours..

On the other hand i will not post any other comment to any request of yours.
There is a non written rule to say in this forum (but i guess is the same in real life), at least, "thank you for helping me taking a decision and/or sharing your experience about something". So far you have done the opposite.
Good bye and i wish you the best success with WHATEVER machine you buy.

I don't see comments from anyone about any other machines...

After our contact the last days, this is not nice to read Antonino.... and we will never say that you can shower with a machine, com'on... we are a serious company. sorry that I got into this discussion Sam after your request not to enter this discussion, but we are very transparent and honest.

Tom, export manager from Selmi SRL

Hi Tom,

my apologies in regards to the discussion, it wasn't meant at all as offensive but merely as a "joke".

We (Tom and i) have been in contact because we want to buy one of Selmi machines and i wouldn't contact you if would think that sale rep are all bad. You are actually the first one from Selmi contacting me so fast!

Just to go back into the topic to clarify with Tom (not with Sam): the OP asked chocolatiers to give their opinion and then he was using my story, my experience to make FBM sound a poor machine. I found it frustrating from Sam to twist peoples word. So far, i have been the only chocolate maker to answer to his request of help, and i never seen a thank you for participating, rather turning my words around.

I participate to Chocolatelife forum because i give and learn things not to accuse or being accused.

I find my self very good with FBM, but as i said to Sam: Selmi,Pomati, Gami FBM: i can only be happy because are machines of Italian technology.

I hope it clarify that i have anything against any business,

regards

Antonino

Before things go on much further, I want to ask people to take a step back.

The original poster (OP, Sam) asked for input from users of various continuous tempering machines about their experiences. Antonino has done a good job of responding on topic to the question. Sam did not ask for people to offer to sell him used machines and specifically asked that manufacturers or reps get involved in the conversation.

In reading the conversation, it seems clear to me that there are definite misunderstandings about what's being said and some things are being taken too literally - things that are clearly jokes to someone whose first language is English (i.e., the shower reference with respect to what sales people will say to make a sale) are not obvious to someone whose first language is not.

Sam - Antonino makes many legitimate points as someone who works with a specific brand of continuous tempering machine on a daily basis. Preventive maintenance is something that many people overlook. Spending a few minutes once a month checking electrical connections, cleaning things off, covering the electronics board to protect them from dust or chocolate, and checking fluid levels is a real good thing to do on any piece of machinery - especially one you depend on. You do it for your car to extend its life and to reduce the possibility of problems. Doing the same thing for a tempering machine is just a good sense, not an indication that there is something "wrong" with a particular brand of machine. Some cars recommend oil changes every 5000km, others every 8000km, others every 15000km. Some people change the oil every 5000km no matter what the manufacturer says.

Antonino was not entirely clear when he says they all use the same technology. The continuous tempering machines in this class all use basically the sameapproach to crystallization; using temperature and shear force to induce the desired crystal formation. The differences in the machines is in the details about how they implement the approaches as well as fit and finish of materials and construction.

One company may prefer to take a more mechanical approach (as Antonino says it would be easier for him in South Africa to find a replacement temperature probe than it would for him to try to replace a circuit board so he tends to like FBM's machines). But that says a lot about his attitude towards equipment in general. Some people are more natural tinkerers and want to know how something works and know that they can fix things. They feel better and more in control. Some people will never open the hood of their car or change their oil (or add windscreen wiper fluid) - they just don't even want to know how. They will always call in an expert repair tech no matter how trivial the problem is. One is not necessarily better than the other - they are both different approaches.

There is also the case of local pre-sales support and after purchase support. Antonino expressed his experiences with getting that support from South Africa. Those experiences will be different in Italy, Belgium, the US, and elsewhere.

The one thing I will say about this subject is that I am fielding a lot of calls and e-mails from craft chocolate makers who own Selmis who are having problems with them. Specifically, the issue is with chocolate makers who do not add cocoa butter or lecithin to their chocolates. Their experience is that the pump mechanisms in the Semis (Colors and Pluses, can't talk about Tops) are underpowered and they are having problems getting consistent doses out of the measured depositors. I don't know if this is a problem with other makers' machines but it is certainly something I am looking into.

One more comment. While it's nice to have good industrial design, beauty is only skin deep. You need to look inside at the parts that will be doing the actual work. What is the horsepower of the pumps and motors, for example? Ideally, you want something that is over-engineered and that is operating at less than rated capacity rather than something that is always operating at design limits. And that applies to all machinery, not just tempering machines.

haha, now I understand what a joke is ... before leaving this discussion because probably I'm not allowed to answer this, I would like to make you understand that there IS A BIG difference in tempering. There is the tempering with a gas system that is or cold or not cold and a tempering with the water cooling that we apply in our machinery. This system is more expensive because we use a tank with water, we cool this water with a fridge system and we pump around the water in a double jacket around the screw that transports the chocolate. Everybody can visit our company to have a look into this system, our factory is open for visits of our customers and potential customers. We are very open to make the people understand before they invest an important amount of money from their businesses, (Money where people have to work hard for and we understand this very well) If you want to try the machine in the shower before you buy it, you can but I tell you before that this will not work We have hundreds of machines running in the USA and thousands of machinery running worldwide. If you need references, just let me know which country and we will give you the list of references or the person in contact to give you the references.

Thanks all,

Tom

PS : I'm also sorry for my poor English, I'm just a Belgian that is used to speak dutch and french and a little german...

What about this

" Their experience is that the pump mechanisms in the Semis (Colors and Pluses, can't talk about Tops) are underpowered and they are having problems getting consistent doses out of the measured depositors. I don't know if this is a problem with other makers' machines but it is certainly something I am looking into.?"

Hi Tom,

all good from my side, i'm an Italian that speaks english mostly with my hands (ha ha ah ah a).

i will get back to you to our other potential deal once the factory is back 100% in shape.

Hi Sam,

I tried not to post up to now (neither when Tom entered the discussion) but after your question to him, I felt you changed your mind about the reps of the companies. Please forgive me if I am wrong.

Sam I believe you got reply from more than one company: Antonino Allegra, Ankur Bhargava and P. B. Marshall have been your references. Then, of course you have to read between the lines and this is not always easy.
FBM stopped producing water cooling system in 1997. Then started with gas. Our system used to heat an cool water around the augur and heat the water of the bowl. So we can really say which is the best solution.
The water cools the chocolate but it doesn't determine its own temperature, it is the compressor that makes 30,5 or 25,6 . Compressor cools (and determines the degrees) of water in the same way it does with gas.
Something about our electronical panel: it arranges the heating and the tempering process (to the decimal), dosing with repetitions, cooling, vibrating molds, and set the machine on night cycle. Than something more that the operator do not see.
Sam, sorry for the above technical boring issue. I know that in the major part of the cases this is something that bother the customer. But there are some customers (like Mr Allegra) who go crazy for this explanations and technical features (and of course we go crazy for these customers) who prefer to go deep into it because they want to know what they really buy (also under a technical point of view).
Maybe you have further , less technical, questions to do, feel free to dare. I am at your disposal.
Mr Allegra, thank you for your support in this discussion, I believe you are not used to buy a personal computer to a store but to assembly it by yourself! Am I right?

HI Giuseppe,

No i wouldn't dare to put a computer together by my self, i actually have the same one for about 8 years and i'm scared to touch it....

I'm good with simple things, but if i put my mind into something i learn how to do it.

I have made my own guitar and my own "melting pot" with a digital thermostat "stolen" from a reptile tank....that how far i could go with "electronic"

there is no moving parts: no mechanics= no fun for me....

I am definitely a geek when it comes to chocolate machinery, especially tempering machines and enrober. In my experience, the people that know about these machines best are the people who represent and sell the machines. Here in North America, I have spoken with reps for Selmi, Savy Goiseau, LCM, Novachoc, Perfect, Bakon USA, etc... and I have never been pressured to bite the bullet if I was not 100% ready. They have all been able to answer very detailed questions about how their machinery works. Some of the people who sell these machines are actually engineers first and sales people second.

Hi Sam,

Did you expect a reply on this, because I really don't want to write too much because everybody has to see for themselves but everybody needs to have the correct information I think... It's very clear. The motors are secured until a safe value. If you are using chocolate that is overkristallising because you set a temperature that is too low, the machine will go in security to safe your machine/motor but also to safe you a lot of time for remelting the chocolate and retempering... If customers are standardly working with thicker chocolate, we will talk the customer through how to set more power on the motor and then you can work perfectly.

About the dosing we have created a wonderful system which you can get the information from Tomric, after all we have to say that the machineries are tempering machinery with a dosing function and not a dosing machine that works 100% accurate. Now we have the option to do it 100% accurate, so we put a dosing system as an option on the tempering machine and this works perfectly !

I'm here when people ask me or you can contact me by mail.

Very best regards to all and keep up the work with chocolate...

Tom

Wow, i hope i didn't start a negative competition between sale reps and companies!

What surprise me is that although this tread has got already 20 reply, no chocolatier is taking part of it!

Where are you guys? no one wants to share their secrets???

Hi Antonino,

From your previous posts, we can see that your experience with FBM has been great. FBM also seems to be less expensive than other manufacturers.

What did make you try Selmi?

Thanks,

Omar

Hi Omar,

i don't understand 100% the question.

I have worked in the past with Selmi in a shop, and i didn't found them great.

Beautiful: yes, good working condition: yes, a bit too pricey for my budget:yes

Then when i was ready to buy a machine i accidently stood on FBM webpage, contact them, and Selmi at same time.

FBM responded immediately and they have been very helpful no matter how big or small my business was. It took a whole year before i could buy a machine: first plan was the small AURA, then it became Prima and although no deal was closed they never gave up on me.

Till last year: the business got a big kick and we had money to buy one.

We live in South Africa, not really around the corner of Italy, so i had to be 100% sure that if a machine breaks i would be able to fix it with what is available here.

South African Engineer are some of the best in the world, so instead of computerized machinery i choose a machine (FBM) that could be fixed here easily (IF I WOULD HAVE PROBLEM, THAT I NEVER HAD).

As well my engineer uses the same motors/mechanic supplier that FBM uses, so it was perfect!

With Selmi, we are interested in a machine that FBM doesn't make. If we will close a deal with them? i don't know: Wishes and money are not best friends!

So, would i be happy in the same way with Selmi? i will not know, simply because i do not have one of their machine to: a) work with it every day b) running her to the limit and beyond, c) open the "hood" and see if my MacGyver skills are useful.

As Italian, i can't be happier! Two Italian Companies are the most requested around the world of Chocolate!

Cheers

Antonino

Hi Antonino,

You are right. My question was not clear, but you already answered it.

I just wanted to know why you are planning to buy a Selmi machine if you are so happy with FBM (and less expensive).

Thanks,

Omar

HI ALL,

There is a BIG BIG TYPO on the last reply:

"I have worked in the past with Selmi in a shop, and i didn't found them great."

WAS MEANT TO BE:"I have worked in the past with Selmi in a shop (Fagiotto's Peratoner) and DID FOUND THEM GREAT!"

My apologies, i still prefer FBM and have ordered another 2 machines , but the Selmi machines are also very good.

My apologies to Selmi for a wrong statement!

Hi Antonino,

I am also based in South Africa and really appreciate your post. I have just "friended" you on the site as I would like to chat with you, if that's OK. I am looking to purchase a tempering machine and have been weighing up the FBM vs. Selmi. I would be interested to talk more about your experiences and get some advice from you.

Thanks,

Clare O'Neill

eClare Chocolates by Design

Pietermaritzburg