Clay,
Yes, I have used them. I work with them ovet the phone and not email. They do provide their film for us and we have had great results. Prior to them, I was very frustrated with our flow wrapper and film. Changing film soved all of our problems. You can also order excellent film from overseas, but this is the domestic source and this is a great way to get started. Thanks!
Hello,
I would recommend contact Eugene Rivera at Quality Bags, Inc in Addison, Illinois. He knows everything about film and he can advise you on the perfect film for your product. Their website is www.qbifilms.com . Let us know how it goes. Thanks!
Yes, I think making the quantity of glucose and sugar equal will inhibit crystallization.
Give it a try. See if you like the results. Then I would do some shelf life tests to see how long the caramels can go without going rancid or crystallizing.
Best of luck to you!!
Daniel
If you would like to invest in a larger pot, then you need to have a burner that is strong enough to heat the contents of that pot. The kettle we use most often is made by Savage bros and we have purchased a candy stove to hold this copper pot. Our copper pots are round on the bottom. so your stove will need to be capable of stabilizing the pot.
The link you showed was interesting. I imagine it would work and it is flat on the bottom like standard pots. I prefer what I have, but I also have the matching stove to work with it.
Hi there!
Yes! we need to find you a faster way to get these done.
Getting some new equipment can be helpful. Of course none of this stuff is cheap. IF you want to make dipped/enrobed caramels, one of the best things you can get is an enrober for obvious reasons. This will bring your daily production from the hundreds to the thousands. Of course this involves several thousands of dollars, even for the least expensive unit.
The other thing is cooking your caramel in one large batch versus multiple smaller batches. We cook all of our caramel in a copper kettle. I have an extra one that we don't use that I would be open to selling ( I know that is an issue for classifieds and I can post there) . When I used to make caramel in stainless steel pots, the pans would often get scorched and ultimately ruined. For some reason this does not happen when I use my kettle and if a little scorching happens then it washes out really easily. Anyway.... our kettle can make a batch of 1,000 caramels in one pot.
When the caramel is done cooking we line our granite table with silicone mats and use long metal bars (6 feet long) to contain the caramel. The bars on the ends are about 2.5 feet long. I had a machine shop make these out of food grade stainless steel. It was a few years ago, but I think I paid around $150-200 for 8 bars total.
The next day when the caramel is cooled, we spread some untempered dark chocolate (you can use tempered too -- either works) on the caramel. Believe it or not, we cut the caramels with a confectionery guitar. If you want to use a guitar, you must be extremely careful with the final temperature of the caramel. Our caramels are soft enough to cut, yet firm enough to hold their shape. If you cook your caramel to a higher temperature then you may break guitar strings. We are very exact on a caramel temperature so that we can achieve the exact texture. Many times, we need to use a knife to cut the caramels again -- regardless, the guitar establishes and marks the perfect shape of the caramels.
Then we put the caramels through an enrober.
If you cant afford some of the equipment I am mentioning, you may want to consider making molded caramels. For a very small operation, I believe that you can get more molded chocolates done in a shorter time than hand dipped chocolates. Also, it is easier to achieve a more liquid caramel for molded chocolates then firmer caramels for dipping/enrobing.
Glad to answer any questions you may have.
Good luck to you Cat. I think you will be pretty happy with what you decide to purchase. Glad to help in any way.
Thanks!
Daniel
I'm still pretty new to owning this machine. I am working with a nitrogen gas provider to get us started with the gas flush process. I am still waiting on that. I am definitely glad I paid a little extra to get the gas flush hookup and the printer.
I have not used the gas flush hookup yet. I need to get a delivery of nitrogen tanks from Praxair. I don't know what they recommend. I would love it if there was someone on this site who was knowlegable about gas flush. Sebastian? Are you out there?
I'm glad I have the printer too. That prints as the film is packaging our product. It is meant for codes only i.e, date codes, batch codes, etc...
We have been packaging quite a bit this week and things have been going pretty smoothly so I am still quite happy with this machine.
Hi there!
Your ice cream seems amazing! We are located about 2 hours away from St. Paul in rural Northwest Wisconsin -- Spooner to be precise. You are welcome to come for a visit anytime.
In terms of the flow wrapper, we purchased a 320 flow wrapper. The 250 could have also worked. I wanted the extra flexibility of the larger machine. Some of our products in the future may be a little taller and I wanted a machine that could wrap that along with the small stuff. Where are you purchasing your machine from? Who is the manufacturer you are working with?
I work with packaging suppliers both domestically and in China. The manufacturer who does the very best work is Elvis at Zooly Packaging in China. He can be reached at elvis@zooly.org . Francisco Migoya recommended him and I have been extremely pleased with everything he and his team has made for us. It is not just about price. The quality is of the highest level. They make every sort of packaging -- rigid boxes, folding cartons, bags, films, etc.... We are waiting on our first shipment of printed film for our flow wrapper. It will be here in about 2 weeks. Our film is a laminated film with a a metallic layer on the inside and a different film on the outside. It has the ability to be hermetically sealed -- which I believe is the ability to hold a gas should you wish to have gas flush.
I also work with Eugene Rivera at Quality Bags in Addison, Illinois. I get unprinted film from him. He really knows everything about film. He can advise you on the right specs for your products. He told me he makes the film for Vosges Chocolate.
Both of these suppliers are really good. Please tell them I referred you.
Glad to keep the conversation going!
Thanks Eric for sharing your experience here. Hopefully, there is someone on this forum that can help you. Maybe some of the Bean to Bar people here can help you figure out this machine and process. It would be great if someone could chime in and offer some technical support to Eric here.
Eric does bring up some good points. I hired a technician who understands flow wrappers to set up our machine. I did not just plug it in and start working. The benefit of working with a domestic company is that they will have the technical support to get you through. There are companies here in the USA that sell Chinese Machines and offer the support for the machines they sell. It does come at a price though of many more thousands of dollars. For my budget, going direct was the only option and then hiring a technician to set it all up.
I also think it is important to do some research on each overseas supplier. If they won't supply you with a reference of a customer who has their machine, I would not work with them. When I was making my purchasing decision, I interviewed US owners of different machines from different suppliers in China. The supplier I went with was the one who got the best reviews.
Yes! I am actually very happy with this machine. We posted a short video about a month ago on the Mayana Chocolate facebook page.
This machine is currently wrapping our product well and opening many new doors for us in the kind of lower price point products we can offer . We don't have to worry about getting backed up with product as we wait to hand wrap each bar.
There are many manufacturers of flow wrappers in China and this is a good one in terms of customer service and the product they offer. We were experiencing some difficulties as we we were getting set up and Steven, the sales rep, took some videos for me.
You can of course find more advanced machines which are more automated with more bells and whistles from companies like Bosch, but they start at $40,000 . This machine cost me $5200 and that included a gas flush hookup and a printer. Shipping was $1400 from China to Wisconsin, USA . It took a solid month to get it here from there to here.
I plan on ordering again from this manufacturer for maybe some vertical packaging machines -- for packing bags. If you reach out to them, please tell them Daniel from Wisconsin referred you. I don't work this company -- just a satisfied customer.
I enjoy talking machines, packaging, chocolate, etc... so please feel free to keep the questions coming.
I am looking at Ramon Morato's recipe for caramel in his excellent book on Chocolate. It is on page 316. I would actually like to adjust it so it will not be likely to crystallize. In the originial recipe it lists 700 grams of sugar and 150 grams of glucose. I would make the glucose and sugar content equal. So the recipe would be as follows:
750 grams heavy cream
700 grams sugar
700 grams glucose
200 grams fresh butter
2 g sodium bicarbonate
salt/or vanilla to taste
Some people have problems with caramels crystallizing. Some people do not. This recipe is intended for those who have issues with it.
Hi there! Making Caramel is a big part of my business. When I first started making caramel in very large batches, I experienced crystallization and had many sleepless nights over it.
Are you adding glucose or any other type of "doctor " or anti crystallizing agent to your recipe? IT could be brown rice syrup, tapioca syrup, corn syrup, etc.... could you tell us how much granulated sugar and how much "doctor" you are using?The way I solved all my problems was by increasing the doctor agent substantially.
I order custom packaging frequently. When it comes to custom bags/pouches/wrappers I have to order them in the thousands. One economical way to go is to order some preformed cello/ or other material bags that fit the dimensions of your bars. Nashville Wraps could be one possibility. Glerup Revere is another (Im assuming you are in North America). Then I would get custom labels made for those bags. Your Labels Now in Illinois is a great source for labels. They will even design them for you at no charge. A polished looking label is a great entry way into custom packaging without the very expensive set up fees and high minimums of getting bags, boxes, etc... made just for you.
Hi there!
Can anyone reccomend a recipe for Peppermint Patties? Is there one anyone has had good success with? Has anyone tried making it with Invertase?
Thanks very much!
Daniel
packmachine.steven@gmail.com is the email of my rep. His name is Steven Cui. Please tell him Daniel from Wisconsin, USA referred you. Thank you,
Daniel
Hi there!
I just purchased a flow wrapper from a Chinese company called Shanghai Goldsen. The machine just arrived to us in our facility in Wisconsin, USA. It was a very good price -- around 5,000 USD . It appears to be a very high quality machine. The American and European Machines are definitely very nice, yet they were around$25,000 - 40,000 and that was too much for us.
I would be happy to introduce you to my sales rep in China if you wish.
Hi Kerry,
I think this may have been the source of my problem! What I was provided was .5mm . I now have a 1mm needle and it is working better.
I noticed some colored cocoa butters are more difficult to airbrush. For example the white cocoa butter is easy to pass through the airbrush and other colors are more challenging. The purple is a color I have to struggle with.
Have you used any other methods of spraying colored cocoa butter? Have you used any of the larger machines? My main concern is wasting expensive cocoa butter.
Thanks for all your contributions! I have learned so much from you!
Daniel
I am a professional chocolatier; however, I really struggle with airbrushed molded bon bons. I do mostly enrobed confections, but I need a few really pretty molded pieces to balance things out. This morning I was fighting with our airbrush. It sprayed cocoa butter for the first mold or two and then it would not cooperate after that. I took it apart. I heat gunned it. I shook it. I prayed over it. I heat gunned it again. It just would not spray!
I have a Paasche airbrush. It is a simple one. I have an Iwata compressor. It was saying 60 PSI . My compressor is from 2008 so maybe that is getting a bit old.
Even though I make my living making chocolates, I am completely confused. Should I buy a new airbrush? Should I buy a new compressor? How can I make this process more efficient and fool proof?
I have seen a lot of members with beautiful molded pieces. I would love to hear from you!
Daniel
Hi there!
We are exploring getting some custom packaging done. I am wondering if anyone has ever ordered direct from a Chinese Manufacturer. We have always worked with domestic manufacturers, but are open to an overseas manufacturer if the quality is good and the price is right. I would love to hear about your experience if you have done this before. If you have had a good experience, I would love to know which manufacturer you used. Thank you all very much!
Daniel
Thanks Sebastian and Clay!
I have got a few follow up questions for both of you... I tried making the Meltaway by Greweling. It is ok. I find the texture to be a little hard (before it melts in you mouth). I notice in those Lindt truffles they have a creamy texture -- more like a ganache than a meltaway. Do you think they use a special mixer to achieve that?
For the Olive Oil Version, should one emulsify that just like a ganache -- I use a robot coupe. I thought putting olive in a food processor turned it bitter.
Thanks for all the insight! I have learned a lot from both of you!
Hi there,
I noticed some manufacturers make a creamy ganache with coconut oil (not coconut milk or cream of coconut). Lindt is a good example of this. Does anyone have any type of recipe like this? I imagine the result will have a long shelf life.
Thanks for your input!
Daniel
Thanks Clay!
I am definitely going to have a good look at the stand alone units. In the summer time our RH reading can get as high as 70% -- even with the dehumidifier on. I would like to keep it around 50% or less. What we currently have is a $250 unti from the hardware store. I don't think it is strong enough for our size room. The untis in the link are definitely bigger and more powerful so one of those will probably do the job. Thanks again!
Daniel
I love winter and how dry it makes it our production facility. Warm and Humid weather is on its way though and we need to dehumidify our production space. Our space is about 2,000 square feet with high ceilings (at least 20 feet high) . We want to be able to make toffee, caramel, nougat, etc... all summer long. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to buy? Thank you!
Daniel
Thank you so much Ruth and Sebastian!
I was hoping I would hear from both of you. I will definitely try going higher in temperature. I was concerned that if I went to high too much invert sugar would be created. I might possibly increasing the butter as well. I will keep you posted on any updates. Thank you again!
Daniel
Hi there,
I am currently in Toffee Hell and I am hoping that I can get out with your help. The toffee I make sticks to peoples' teeth and I have received some complaints about it. I am committed to changing this situation. Ideally toffee has a nice snap when you bite into it, but then it gives way to a tender texture that immedietly crumbles and dissolves in your mouth. Even though I add a tremendous amount of butter to my recipe, the texture I end up with is more like a hard candy that ultimately sticks to your teeth. I am hoping some of you can help me understand the finer points of making delicious toffee with a very pleasing texture. Here are some questions I have.
1. Currently, I use standard American salted butter. Does the quality of the butter make a difference? If I used Plugra or an European style butter with a lower water content -- would that make a difference?
2. What temperature should I be cooking the toffee to? I currently stop at 295-300 degrees Farenhite. Should I be going for a higher temperature?
3. My current recipe does not use corn syrup. I thought by not using corn syrup I would have a less sticky texture. That is not the case? Would corn syrup help me on my quest to a tender texture?
4. What should the relative humidity of my room be? I make everything in Northern Wisconsin. These days the RH is around 50%. I use a dehumidifier, but We have had a humid and warmer than usual autumn. Does my relative humidity of my room need to be lower? I noticed that excellent toffee comes from arid climates such as Colorado. I've also had excellent toffee that comes from the Midwest.
5. What about stirring? We cook the batch in a big copper kettle. We stir with a paddle to prevent scorching. Does the stirring or lack of stirring effect the texture of the toffee? Honestly, we have to stir as we don't want a scorched pot.
6. What about storage? Can I store at room temp just fine?
For your reference Here is my recipe and my process...
Salted Butter: 9080 grams
Water: 2270 grams
Sugar, White Granulated: 11,350grams
Salt: 71 grams
Soy Lecithin: 28 grams
Almonds: 2270
Melt the butter in the copper kettle. Add the water, salt, sugar, and lecithin. Cook until 295-300 degrees. Stir in Toasted Almonds. Pour on Marble Table. Let cool. Coat with chocolate and add Crushed almonds.
Thank you for your help. I can really use it!
Daniel
What about bottled liqueur that have cream (or the appearance of cream) in it? How does a cream liqueur like Baileys stay fresh without refrigeration? How does one keep the product emulsified?
I am not talking about a confection, but rather a bottled liqueur that could be sold at a liquor store. Godiva makes a version of this http://www.godivaliqueurs.com/ . I wonder how to go about formulating and processing a bottled product. I'm wondering if any special emulsifying equipment or homogenizing equipment is necessary. I would love to hear any input. Thank you!!!
Daniel
I am wondering how one formulates and processes a shelf stable chocolate liqueur. The creamy varieties that are used for dessert drinks are especially mysterious to me. How does one preserve the dairy products in the liqueur? How do things stay emulsified? Does anyone know?
Thanks!!
Daniel
Hi there,
I am wondering in what form do you add sorbitol to ganache. I purchased sorbitol in powder form. Should I add that straight to the cream mixture for my ganache? Or should I create a sorbitol solution? If a solution is necessary, how much water should I add? Thanks for your input!
Daniel
Hi Mark,
In terms of panning, I am most interested in chocolate panning versus something like jelly beans. I would be very interested to learn about coloring and decoration techniques.
For candy bars, caramel and other crunchy elements would be really nice. When you say biscuit, are you referring to a shortbread or something like a kit kat? Both of those sound great to me.
Toffee is something that a lot of artisan chocolatiers sell. There is not a whole lot of information on the science of getting that perfect texture. That could be a great subject too.
Keep us posted!
Daniel
Great Question Mark,
I have heard great things about you so I know I would love to take one of these classes. Some subjects that I would love to see are the following:
1. Panning for the artisan
2. Artisan Candy Bars
3. Sugar Confections -- toffee, nougat, lollipops, marshmallow, etc...
Where would you host these classes? Do you know approximately how much they would cost to attend?
Thank you!!!
Daniel
Hi there,
I have this machine. I have an older model from the 90s. I can tell you that this machine can work all day and all night. You can enrobe for as long as you want. You will have to add more chocolate when the tank gets low. I always have a supply of melted chocolate that is ready to add to the machine when needed. If you have any more specific questions. I would be happy to answer them. Enjoy your new machine!
Daniel
I have been reading Jean Pierre Wybauw's 3rd book on extending shel life. I notice that many of his recipes in that book feature Glycerol as an ingredient. Does anyone have an opinion on this ingredient? Has anyone used it in a confection before? Thanks!
Daniel
Hi Sebastian,
That makes a lot of sense. From what I can summarize, it seems as though a vacuum would not hurt at all, but the several thousand dollars to have it might not be worth it. Thanks for your insightful comment!
Daniel
Thank you Ruth and Sebastian,
I really appreciate your input. Do you think having a vacuum on a robot coupe is worth the investment? Does it improve shelf life significantly or could a long shelf life bon bon (3 month or so) be created with having a well balanced ganache alone. The vacuum on a stephan or robot coupe seems great, but they add a several thousand dollars to the cost of the machine. Thanks again!
Daniel
Hi there,
I am wondering which tool you prefer for emulsifying ganache. Do you prefer working with an immersion blender or a robot coupe (food processor)? Does a robot coupe create too much air when emulsifying? I know some chocolatiers use a vaccuum feature on their robot coupe or stephan mixer. Is that really necessary? Thanks for your feedback. I look forward to hearing about your experience!
Daniel
Sebastian,
Thank you for the link you provided. It is a gold mine of very valuable information!
Hi there,
my production of chocolate bon bons is increasing. I have been using my robot coupe R2 to emulsify ganache. These days my 3 liter machine is too small to emulsify my batches. I would love to have a bigger robot coupe or a stephane mixer; however, that is not currently in my budget. Would an immersion blender work? If so, does any one have any good reccomendations? Here is what a recipe size looks like...
5,450 grams dark chocolate
1,000 grams milk chocolate
3750 grams heavy cream
600 grams invert sugar
1,000 grams butter (i prefer to mix ganache with melted butter)
I greatly appreciate any insight you may have. Thanks!
Daniel
I am currently making a lot of almond praline paste in my robot coupe. It does a good job, but it can only handle small batches and it does take quite a while to get a nice paste. I think I will need to upgrade to a bigger machine. Does anyone have any reccomendations on what to buy. I am looking at making about 30 pounds of praline paste in a day. Thanks in advance!
Daniel
Hi there,
A grocery store is interested in carrying our chocolate bars. They require nutrional labels for our bars. How do I develop that? Is there a service that develops that? Thanks very much!
Daniel
Hi there,
I own both tools and if I were in your position, I would definitely choose the guitar cutter and leave the caramel cutter for another time. If you make a lot of ganache, nothing cuts like a guitar. I have a background as a savory chef and have very good knife skills. with that said, It is very difficult to cut hundreds or thousands of pieces of ganache evenly. Also, you can cut caramels with a guitar cutter. I know that there are a number of chocolatiers that say you can't, but it can be done. You must be very careful with the final temperature -- if the caramel is too firm, you will break the strings. If the caramel is too soft the caramels will stick back together after the strings go through. I find that cooking the temperature to 240-241 degrees Farenhite is a good temperature for my recipe. Recipes that a high amount of fat and a moderate amount of glucose hold their shape best when cutting in my experience.
Also, if you choose to buy a guitar I highly reccomend going with a Dedy guitar with a stainless steel base. The cheaper ones with the plastic base are not as good and they are very difficult to clean.
good luck with your decision!
Daneil
I have been making quite a bit of toffee this holiday season and I certainly don't know everything when it comes to making this treat. I have been trying to achieve a tender texture that does not stick to one's teeth. I'm still on that searchThere is limited information in books on creating excellent toffee. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this site who are much more experienced than me at making toffee and so I would love to hear your input. Here are some questions I have...
1. What is the best temperature to cook toffee to in order to achieve a tender texture? I have seen a range of recipes ranging from 285 degrees Farenhite to 310 Farenhite. I'm confused.
2. Should I add corn syrup to toffee? I am wondering if adding corn syrup creates a stickier texture? Does it inhibit a tender texture? I see some recipes include corn syrup and others that don't.
3. Does seeding toffee with a small amount of granulated sugar at the end of cooking really help? Does anyone do this? I've tried it and I did not notice much of a difference.
4. Does adding baking soda at the end help in creating a nice texture.
Any other tips or observations by others is greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Daniel
