Tempering & enrobing system advice

Dirke Botsford
@dirke-botsford
09/08/14 12:22:52PM
98 posts

Currently looking for a tempering system with the idea of having an enrobing line to attach to it later down the road. I was looking at the Chocovision 3z as I like their equipment and their support is first class but they are still working on an enrobing line that has the wax paper take off.

Looked at the Tomric and Selmi solutions but they are really expensive where as the chocovision system is affordable and I believe we get a discount through chocolate life? Any recommendations would be appreciated, the pro's & cons.....


updated by @dirke-botsford: 04/10/15 12:37:43PM
Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
09/08/14 02:06:18PM
132 posts

Hi Dirke,

A few years ago, I posted a review of Perfect Equipments entry level enrober. Check it out here http://www.thechocolatelife.com/forum/topics/what-s-your-dream-machine . I think it is a very good entry level enrober. They are about $12 or $13,000 USD new. There are certainly more advanced enrobers out there. I use my enrober 3 or 4 times a week -- often all day long. This machine has helped my business tremendously. I certainly dream of getting a fancy LCM enrobing line that will cost $50k, but the machine I have has done the job very well.

I personally am not a fan of the chocovision enrober because I simply don't understand how it works. I would not invest in a machine without a paper take off. Then again, it depends on the quantity and the resulting look that you want to achieve. Do you want a more rustic look or a more refined confection with a very thin coating? The latter is very important to me so a blower is a must. Ihave never owned a chocovision so I amdefinitely not an expert on the machine. Perhaps a rep for the company might want to chime in on how the enrober will work?

Again, there arefancier machines than what I have, but I believe that I have the best machine that is under $15k .

Good luck with the decision. It's certainly is a big investment.

Daniel

Dirke Botsford
@dirke-botsford
09/08/14 02:51:40PM
98 posts

Daniel, that's perfect! Exactly what I am looking for and in Canada to boot! Brilliant! Thank you so much. I have just sent them an email to get pricing. Cheers

Giuseppe Di Chiano
@giuseppe-fbm
09/09/14 06:18:24AM
11 posts

Dirke, what about having a look at the conotnuous tempering machine from FBM?

FBM has been manufacturing machines since 1977, and over the last years has been producing small tempering and enrobing machines.

From the 7 kg bowl capacity tempering machine upwards, all the temepring unit can use an enrober as accessory (including air blower, double veil box, detailerindependent motor).

Prima, Compatta, Chocolab are what we call small tempering and enrobing machines. You can visit website at www.boscolo.it and blog (with videos) at myblog.boscolo.it

Please ask if you need further help and informations.

Giuseppe

Al Garnsworthy
@al-garnsworthy
09/13/14 04:32:52PM
22 posts

Hi Dirke,

I would always consider second hand machines too.. you can make your budget go so much further when you don't buy brand new, but obviously you don't benefit from warranties etc.

If I were you, I would be looking for a second hand Selmi Plus. They come up on here once in a while.

You will find the Continuous Tempering is a massive feature for the enrober too.

Tom Bauweraerts
@tom-bauweraerts
09/18/14 03:59:25AM
23 posts

Hi Dirke,

you can consider a small tempering machine with a small enrober, but what will you do with the machine when you grow your business? Their enrobing quality is not 100% and it limits your growth.

You also need to look at a tempering machine that gives enough chocolate to make a nice double curtain for perfect enrobing.

A second hand can be an option for budget sake, but you can also look into the Tomrics summer sale that has the newest generation of tempering machinery on a very good price. Ask also to Tomrics references on the market, they have put a big number of tempering machinery on the USA market and have a lot of knowledge.

Good luck !

Tom

Giuseppe Di Chiano
@giuseppe-fbm
09/18/14 05:05:08AM
11 posts

Dirke, small tempering machines with enrober are smaller capacity machines. And less expansive machines. Enrober width is 180 mm. Our competitor entrober, on bigger capacity machines, is 200 mm wide. What do you think? When you do enrobe is the machine or the enrober that gives the productivity rate?

I got some customers with small machines enrobers who can produce 300 pralines per hour working only 1 person and 600 units working one person loading and the other at the end of the enrober taking off the pralines.

With 7 kg bowl capacity you can produce up to 30 kg final product. Considering a pralines can have from 3 to 5 grams chocolate.

Sure, if you have to mould 1 kg mold.....not enough bowl capacity!

About upgradability. We do have 2 different capacity machines (7 and 12 kg) that can have same enrober. So, under an investment point of view: 2 machines and 1 accessory means: upgradable solution at the right price.

FBM is trying to care more of what the customer needs are. Maybe we will change our mind in the future ;-)

I thought about a small tempering machine because you first asked for a Chocovision 3z!

Giuseppe

Tom Bauweraerts
@tom-bauweraerts
09/18/14 05:15:19AM
23 posts

Hi Dirke,

I don't want to enter in sales talk, that's not why I replied to your message.

Just a good advice is to test well the machine for several hours and days and then you can decide which machine is good for your needs (and your future needs). As said speak also with other people and not only the people that the supplier suggest :-)

All the best

Tom

Al Garnsworthy
@al-garnsworthy
09/18/14 05:53:51PM
22 posts
I would never have a wheel tempering machine and enrober again.. Buying a continuous tempering machine from the beginning will save you having to buy a different machine 12/18 months down the line.I'd get a selmi if you can find one for your budget.
Dirke Botsford
@dirke-botsford
09/18/14 06:04:19PM
98 posts

I just bought some equipment from Perfect. Fit our budget, went with a 20kg tempering unit which is more then enough for us for a couple of years and will buy the enrober in a few months. Thank you for all your input, I researched all the equipment that was mentioned. It was great seeing everything that was out there and the features, helped narrow down what would be the best fit for us. Came down to price, availability of parts and features. Thankfully Perfect equipment is in Canada so no duties! always a killer on the budget.

I'm very glad and thankful to have had all of you to ask, this forum is such a useful resource. Thanks Clay!

Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
09/19/14 11:52:20AM
132 posts

Hi Al,

What kind of wheel tempering machine and enrober did you have? I would like to hear more about why it did not work out for you.

Daniel

Al Garnsworthy
@al-garnsworthy
09/19/14 03:58:49PM
22 posts

Hi Daniel,

I had a Prefamac Tempering Machine and Enrober. The reason I would not recommend a machine like this is because of the quality of the tempered chocolate that you use when enrobing.

As the wheel machine in essence batch tempers the chocolate ie. the whole 30kg gets tempered in minute 1, the characteristics of this chocolate changes minute 2, 3, 10, 15, 30, 60, 90 etc. The chocolate is likely going to increase in numbers of crystals and get thicker. Obviously if the thickness of the chocolate on your first center is different to the thickness of the covering of your 1,000 center, then this is a problem. I want my chocolates to all have the same thickness, I want consistency in my production. I have heard of people working successfully to reduce the thickness of the chocolate, by increasing the working temp by 1 degree etc, however it's a pain, and I believe the quality of finish is compromised when this happens.

A machine such as a Selmi has a continuos tempering machine, as in the chocolate is always in temper when it comes out of the spout at the top of the machine, and then it is taken out of temper when it drops down into the tank at the bottom, before being taken through the temper cycle again. With this, you are always enrobing in freshly tempered chocolate. Not only does this mean, the thickness of the chocolate is the same all day long, the tank can be topped up with 45degree chocolate all day long and you can enrobe all day with no interruptions for tweaking the chocolate thickness etc.

I'm sure a lot of people will have great experience with wheel machines, however in my experience when you go to continuous tempering you will never go back.

I would 100% buy a second hand continuous enrobing machine from Selmi etc. rather than buy a brand new wheel machine.

Thanks

Al

Giuseppe Di Chiano
@giuseppe-fbm
09/22/14 04:38:35AM
11 posts

....and consider also a melting bowl that would be less narrow but more deep! I mean same bowl capacity but designed less wide (diameter) but deeper...chocolate would be bettermelted and heated .

Completly agree to what Al wrote.

Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
09/22/14 10:29:32PM
132 posts

Hi Al,

I completely respect your point of view. For me, managing the chocolate has not been too much of an issue on a wheel machine because I have the option of heated air in the blower.

If the chocolate begins to get too cool or thick I will simply have heated air going through the blower. When the chocolate gets too warm, I run cool air through the blower. If I did not have this option, it would be a lot more challenging and I would be using a heat gun often to melt out thick chocolate. Because I have the option of heated air, I will use the machine for 10 hours without ever picking up a heat gun.

Perhaps if I acquired a machine such as a Selmi, FBM, or LCM, I might feel the same way as you and never turn back to a wheel machine. Has the Selmi improved the quality of your finished chocolate confections? Does it enrobe better? Are there feet on your chocolate bon bons? How about air bubbles? Thanks for sharing your experiences?

Daniel

Al Garnsworthy
@al-garnsworthy
09/23/14 03:34:41AM
22 posts

Hi Daniel,

The machine I had didn't have a heated blower, so I don't know how much of a difference it would have made. For me, having gone from the wheel machine to a continuous tempering machine, I have just felt like the continuous tempering means you have one less thing to worry about. When you are enrobing a lot of centers, the last thing you want to be worrying about is the changing thickness of your chocolate. I also know, that when I enrobe I want to get the shiniest finish possible - for this reason adjusting the temperature of the chocolate to thin it out is the last thing I want to do. If I start enrobing at 30, I want to enrobe at 30 all day long, as it should result in complete consistancy.

I have had a Savy Goiseau Crystal 185 continuous tempering machine and enrober, which was pretty good. The quality of temper was pretty good and the quality of enrobe that you could get was pretty good too - far above what I could achieve with the Prefamac wheel machine. No bubbles, paper thin covering with no feet.

I have then moved onto a Sollich enrobing line with cooling tunnel, which obviously is a different beast altogether again. The Sollich is an absolute joy to use - the quality of temper, the quality of covering is just exceptional. When I bought our Sollich enrobing line, the guy selling it said, the best way to describe a Sollich and a wheel tempering enrober would be that the Sollich is the Rolls Royce and the wheel machine is a Fiat Panda.

For me, I would rank the enrobing machines I have had as the equivalent of the cars below:

Prefamac Wheel Macine: Fiat

Savy Goiseau Crystal 185: Citroen

Selmi Plus w/Enrober: BMW

Sollich: Rolls Royce

All of the machines above are all at very different price points, and something like a Sollich is not practical for the small workshop, however as I have said before, if I was starting out, I would buy a second hand continuous tempering/enrobing machine, rather than a new wheel machine.

You can see my work on my companies Instagram page: http://instagram.com/chocsoc

If you have any other questions about machinery, please give me a shout.

Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
09/23/14 10:34:56AM
132 posts

Thanks Al!

I think your summary is excellent ! I am definitely experiencing enrober envy at the moment! I would love to see the Sollich in action.I wonderhow the LCM machines would compare? Perhapsthey wouldbe like aBentley?

Thanks for all your feedback. You have definitely inspired me to sell more chocolate so I can get one of these fine machines.

Daniel

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