Forum Activity for @Clay

Stu:

At that kind of throughput, a couple of options suggest themselves to me.

The first is a continuous machine like a Selmi Color EX. It's about 10,000 Euros ex-works Italy. It's sweet spot for production is right in the range you are talking about. As you mention it's not a great option as you can only afford one and if anything goes wrong ... The EX model has the removable augur making changeover faster.

Another continuous tempering option is the FBM Prima. This has a 7kg tank and an hourly capacity in the 35kg range, but the price is 6,000 Euros ex-works Italy, before a ChocolateLife member discount. You can run milk in one, dark in another, or the same chocolate in both to reach ~70kg/hr throughput. And you have a backup machine in case one goes down.

Another option is what are called "over/under" tempering tanks. These are basically two melting tanks, one positioned over the other. The top tank holds melted chocolate that is dripped into the bottom tank, The bottom tank is tempered using the seed method (there is an agitator), and chocolate is removed via a valve at the bottom of the lower tank. There are many operations that use this approach for very high volume production. The cost depends on the sizes of the tanks and whether or not there is a pump involved - but you should be able to buy two sets for the budget you're talking about. The vibrating table is not included, but you can get one that holds three full-size molds from Chocovision for about US$800.

:: Clay

Sorry, throughput, not capacity: 25 kg/hr or 25 kg/day?

A machine has a work bowl capacity and an average hourly throughput capacity. A batch melter might have a high bowl capacity (e.g., 25kg, but if it take 1 hour to melt and temper 25kg, then its throughput is limited to the number of cycles in a day.

The small Selmi's have work bowl capacities that are small, but have throughput capacities that are multiples higher. If you only needed 25kg day of chocolate, you could get by with a machine with a 4kg work bowl capacity with an hourly throughput of 10kg.

Make sense?

Stu:

What kind of hourly/daily production are you looking at?

Also - be aware of the difference between automatic tempering machines (i.e., continuous tempering machines, e.g., Selmi), semi-automatic machines (i.e., batch/wheel, e.g., Perfect, JVK), and melters (i.e., manual tempering).

Automatic is most expensive, and because of the electronics, most likely to break. These also offer the highest production capacity and throughput with enrobing, mold filling, and depositing options. Usually have buit-in vibrating tables.

Semi-automatic is middling expensive and are much more rugged. Second-highest capacity and throughput with enrobing options.

Manual are least expensive (though not cheap) and least likely to give problems. However, the require the highest degree of skill to use and need to be tweaked during the day. No options, everything is done by hand. Can be high throughput for skilled workers.

Which way to go depends on your confidence and your skill level as well as the mix of products you're making and how much chocolate you go through every day. If you can answer these last three questions, we can make better recommendations,

:: Clay

Certainly, free water in the agave syrup (or any other ingredient) is a contributor.

One way to test this is to make the exact same recipe but leave out the agave. If, in a week, you don't get the taste change you know that the water in the agave is encouraging the growth of something. You can then try an alternative form of sweetener (e.g., coconut palm sugar).

If you do get the taste change, make the recipe removing one ingredient at a time until the taste change does not happen. Now you know what ingredient is reacting with the water in the agave and you can find a substitute.

It may be that the cocoa powder/mass you are using has mold or other spores in it. These are much harder to control than in "cooked" chocolate because of the low temperature processing. You have to be much cleaner working, too.

John:

When the chocolate "goes off" what does that mean? Does it start to taste rancid? Is mold growing? What's happening?

Ben -

Neither Alan nor Colin - or you - shared with me that they/you were using convections ovens. Need to revise my opinion in that case.

:: Clay

I don't know the brand, in fact. I am on record as saying that I don't think the use of convection ovens is a good idea because it's difficult (if not impossible) to get an even roast - even when moving pans around. I would never buy a used oven for this reason without testing it to know that the temperature was even front to back, left to right, top to bottom, when full of pans.

Furthermore, one thing I do know is that the ovens need to be cleaned very often. Like every day. They are not designed to handle the build-up of fats (cocoa butter in suspension in the air). These can clog the fans, too, so it's extremely important to be diligent about cleaning them

Another point I want to mention. Roasting is a crucial element of flavor development. Why skimp out on it? If anything, you want to ensure that you're getting the best possible roast, not the cheapest possible roaster.

There are others who disagree with this opinion, but there is no one I know who is making chocolate that is using a convection oven as a roaster that makes a chocolate that is widely held (i.e., internationally) in high regard.

Solis:

I am curious to know why you want to know the specific brand. In reality it does not matter. The concerns are the number of racks (which determines the batch size) as well as the evenness of the airflow (and therefore the temperature of the oven cavity) from back to front, top to bottom, and left to right.

Another concern that few people talk about is recovery time. How long does it take for the oven to return to the preset temperature after the doors are opened? There are two times ... when cold items are added (i.e., new pans with beans), and when hot items are returned (i.e., after rotating/shaking the pans).

A final note that few people talk about when using convection ovens is ... how often do they need to be cleaned? Mast Bros clean every day to remove residue left over from roasts (off the sides, doors, fan mechanism). If left uncleaned, this residue can degrade the performance of the oven as well as, potentially, introduce off-odors.

Omar:

I certainly know that it made it very easy to replace the strings! Also, the strings were short so they didn't stretch very much, making them last longer.

Using the device was a little tricky as it relied on physical strength to push the slab through the strings (with a pusher). At some point, it becomes very difficult to work this way. I can imagine creating a simple ratchet mechanism that would enable someone to apply a lot of force with a little leverage.

I saw a handmade version of a guitar like this in Bolivia made using - believe it or not - real guitar tuning pegs to stretch the wires. Very ingenious. The main difference is that the material was pushed through the guitar by hand.

The board was shaped like an "L" and material was pushed through one set of strings than pushed through the other without having to be removed from the board. It was made from wood, but no reason it couldn't be made from aluminum and HDPE pretty inexpensively.

I will look to see if I can find the pictures and post.

Springfield, Mo. On Oct. 21, 2011, American bean to bar chocolate maker AskinosieChocolate shipped their first export to China

The crew at Askinosie has been working with a distributor in China for months inpreparation for their order. Many special instructions had to be followed that the factory had notencountered for export to any other country, such as retrieving special certificates about theingredients, and creating new packaging for the chocolate bars. The chocolate bars will becarried in high-end department stores in Shanghai.

This occasion marks a significant achievement for not just Askinosie Chocolate, butAmerica as a whole- last week marked the highest U.S. trade deficit with China in history.

Shawn Askinosie, founder and CEO of Askinosie Chocolate says, Even though ourpallet of chocolate seems insignificant, it isnt because it represents a glimmer of hope for smallbusinesses in America, that we are part of the change. There is demand in China for high qualityproducts made in America.

Jane Shen, President of Shanghai Eagle Import & Export Co. Ltd., the importer ofAskinosie Chocolate says, The chocolate is good quality, good taste, with a specialenvironmental packaging.

This order is what Askinosie hopes to be the first of many in a long relationship withtheir new distributor in a brand new market

Askinosie Chocolate is a small batch chocolate manufacturer located in Springfield,Missouri, sourcing 100% of their beans directly from the farmers. Shawn Askinosie, founder andchocolate maker, travels to regions of Ecuador, Honduras, the Philippines and Tanzania to workdirectly with the farmers and source cocoa beans for his chocolate. This allows the chocolate tobe traced to the source and labeled Authentic Single Origin Chocolate. It also enables AskinosieChocolate to profit share with the farmers, giving them a Stake In the Outcome. The AskinosieChocolate mission is to serve their farmers, their neighborhood, their customers and each other;sharing the Askinosie Chocolate experience by leaving the world a better place than they found it.

Bean to Bar Chocolate Workshop Debuts in the Hudson Valley

SHOKAN, NY Youve heard of farm to table cuisine featuring the freshest, most imaginative food in the Hudson Valley. Now, chocolate lovers can also rejoice with the opening of an unparalleled bean to bar chocolate workshop in Shokan, NY.

Fruition Chocolate is a workshop that makes its stone ground chocolate in small batches using all organic ingredients. The highest quality cocoa beans are sourced from Costa Rica, slowly roasted to bring out their unique flavor, and stone ground to a luxurious smooth texture.

Chef Bryan Graham, who grew up in the Catskill Mountains, has worked for over 13 years as a baker, pastry chef, confectioner, and chocolate maker. A graduate of the Culinary Institute of America, he later worked as Sous Chef at the Apple Pie Bakery Caf where he began a micro batch bean to bar chocolate making program. With the launch of Fruition Chocolate, Chef Graham harnesses his specialized skill set and artistry to create an exciting new line of chocolate and confections.

Fruition Chocolates opening product line includes a selection of dark chocolate and milk chocolate bars. The Classic Milk is an interpretation of a traditional milk chocolate: full of big vanilla and caramel notes. The Dark Milk is a gateway chocolate: a hybrid of dark and milk that is rounded out with fleur de sel. The Signature Dark 66% and 70% Dark bars floral and earthy tones are highlighted by a careful and judicious roast. Rustic Crunch blends 70% dark chocolate with Demerara sugar crystals, cocoa nibs and Vietnamese cinnamon. To top it off, Fruition offers enticing chocolate coated products: Caramelized Oregon Hazelnuts, Smoked Almonds, Roasted Cocoa Nibs, and Jalapeo Dusted Corn Nuts.

Fruition Chocolate is wholesaling to pastry chefs at high-end restaurants such as Cafe Boulud in NYC and to bars and retailers including The Stockade Tavern in Uptown Kingston, NY and Blue Cashew in Rhinebeck, NY. Fruition also produces custom chocolates and confections for weddings and special occasions.

Fruition will open its workshop as a retail store on November 19th. Please celebrate with us from 4pm - 10pm. There will be a variety of chocolates and confections to taste and the product line will be available for sale. Fruition Chocolate will be open Fridays from 12pm - 6pm, and Saturdays and Sundays from 10am - 6pm. We will have extended hours during the holiday season. Please visit www.TasteFruition.com for further information.

Fruition Chocolate is located 11.5 miles northwest of the NYS Thruway, in the Olive Plaza at 3091 Route 28, Shokan, NY 12481. The phone number is (845) 657-6717.

Andre:

There are any number of books that go into the making of pates de fruits . Learning something about the chemistry will probably be a good help. Even if you don't want to buy your pectin from Amazon, I can recommend Peter Greweling's book - there's a whole chapter on Jellies.

Chocolates and Confections: Formula, Theory, and Technique for the Artisan Confectioner

Ben -

It's possible to put a digital thermometer in the chocolate and attach it to a device that will turn the power on and off. However, you will only be measuring the temperature at one point, so I don't know how useful it will be.

:: Clay

I realize you don't need a stable temp.

The question is: "How long will it take for any given approach to melting chocolate take to melt X weight to desired temp?" This melter might be real fast - too fast, in fact in that it will melt far more chocolate than you need far more quickly than you need to a temperature much higher than you need.

If so, then whatever money you're saving on the equipment you're losing in increased energy costs.

Or maybe not. There could be ways to much more closely monitor the equipment, but it won't be "set and forget" especially at the beginning.

To everyone looking to shave a few bucks off a purchase, capital acquisition costs are only a small part of the total cost picture, or total cost of operation (TCO).

Operating a piece of equipment can cost more than buying it.

If one piece of equipment is less energy efficient than another, then it may make more sense to buy the more expensive piece of equipment as it will be cheaper in the long run

Ben - the unit you're looking at is a food warmer. It wants to hold food above 150F. That's real high for chocolate. I'd contact the company (or the web site) and ask them what the bottom end of the range on the thermostat is. Even is 150F is okay, you'll pay more to keep it at that temp than at 120F - and it will cost more in the long run, even if you saved a few bucks up front.

While UTZ may be less well known (to some) than FLO, RA, and others, the question is really about your feelings about the definition of sustainable.

Mars just announced that many of its products in the Netherlands will be UTZ certified starting February 2012.

Accompanying the announcement was the following "definition" for sustainability.

Sustainable cocoa means that it is produced using humanitarian agriculture techniques that are environmentally friendly and offer cocoa farmers a better price.

Please share your thoughts on this definition.

Brian, you seriously want me to believe that you are not interested one iota in knowing the chocolate personality of Lady GaGa? Or Justin Bieber?

Snap.

According to the press release :

Nestl has created a new luxury brand that delivers fresh chocolates, tailor-made for individual tastes.

Actually, that's not the case.If you take a closer read through the release, it's a two-step process.

1. You get a tasting box, rate the selections, and return the ratings.
2. You get a custom selection of chocolates, not actual chocolate recipes tailor-made

That said, it's part of a much broader initiative that has the potential (if it's successful, if consumers care, do people associate Nestl with a luxury brand (Hershey couldn't do it with Scharffen Berger, et al) to influence chocolate marketing globally.

Your thoughts on the program, its chances for success, and how it might have an impact on the chocolate business generally - and your business in particular?

Some more from the release:

Maison Cailler is a response to the changing times we live in, Mr Lacroix explains.

People are looking for more personalised products and services, and they are increasingly purchasing these online."

We will be able to fine tune the Maison Cailler offering according to consumer feedback, he continues.

Although the five main chocolate personalities will never change, soon we will be able to identify nuances. The goal really is to be as personal as possible.

People can register to set up a personal account on the Maison Cailler website; importing their Facebook contacts and logging the chocolate personalities of their friends.

They will also be able to post questions to the Maison Cailler team.

The Maison Cailler website, which works on all digital devices, will stream live footage from webcams in the chocolatiers kitchens; from the Molson; and from the fields where the cows who provide the factorys milk graze.

There will even be live footage from a cocoa farm in Ecuador.

We are showing consumers that we are a real business, with real people, who work here every day making chocolate for them to enjoy, adds Mr Lacroix.

Mel -

Since this comment from Marou Chocolate was posted I believe that they are now in the business of selling small quantities of beans. I would get directly in touch with them.

This just in from Bloomberg-Business Week :

Credit Suisse AG reduced its three- and 12-month cocoa price forecasts as the commodity is still expensive and the technical picture looks weak.

Cocoa will be at $2,550 a metric ton on ICE Futures U.S. in New York in three months, down from a previous estimate of $2,700 a ton, the bank said in a monthly report e-mailed today. The chocolate ingredients price is seen at $2,350 a ton in 12 months, down from $2,400 a ton forecast last month, it said.

That's down about 30% from the all-time high less than a year ago. Scary.

Last Friday, the government of Ghana set the minimum price it would pay farmers for the 2011-2012 harvest at US$2000/MT.

The price of the beans has been falling on global markets and the government has sacrificed part of its export tax share to help farmers, Finance Minister KwabenaDuffuor said at a news conference [Friday, Oct 14] in Accra, the capital.

[FYI, the market price for cocoa on Friday was US$2664.96/MT down from US$3471/MT just this past February. World market commodity prices have been consistently above US$2000/MT since November, 2007.

I wonder if there is any "coincidence" in the Ghanaian government setting the floor at the same price as the FT floor and wonder what the floor is/was prior to this announcement. It also makes you wonder what the real differences are between the farm gate prices, the local market prices, any government-controlled pricing, and the export/world market prices.

It's a lot more complicated than a single number.

[On-line source for cocoa bean pricing .]

Notes about pricing in neighboring Ivory Coast.

See also this Reuters story on the Ivorian government ending consultations with cocoa exporters and farmers on planned reforms to the sector that will guarantee its hundreds of thousands of smallholders a minimum selling price.

Lana:

Take a look here . Based on the photo it looks like the issue of whether or not the lid will fit in your rack depends on the way your rack is made.

As for how tight the fit it is. Not having used this exact model, but based on experience with other, similar products, the plastic lid does have a friction fit. How good that fit is depends on many things, including, I imagine, how beat up the pan it's covering is.

You are only "allowed" to use Valrhona?

You can certainly experiment with chilling the caramel but I think you will find it very hard to work with. Looking to make the caramel firmer, while the same flavor, is probably your best bet.

Using molds is not an option? Have you tried making snobinettes? People make those with wine corks covered in plastic wrap. Dip that in tempered chocolate, let harden, then remove the cork and plastic (carefully). You now have a "cup" that you can fill with liquid caramel ... and cap if you want or not. Great thing about this approach is that the "molds" are really cheap.

There is another option to consider, which is pre-made truffle shells. Pipe your caramel into those then cover the hole with chocolate. Let the plug harden, then dip.

There was a very long discussion on this recently, the consensus being that it's a pretty common thing to do and it makes sense to use the technique where it makes sense. There are some very big names that got their start using pre-made shells and filling them. Vosges is one. They may still be doing it, though my guess is that by now they are using a one-shot machine due to the volume they produce.

Omar:

Did you see the writeup/video on the app on the Apple site? Like many aspects of the Tcho story, I think there's a little misdirection going on here.

Timothy talks about automating the lab - which is all small-scale machinery. That I've seen.

To the best of my knowledge, the only machinery in the actual factory that is controlled remotely by iPhone is the depositor. As they don't roast/winnow on the Pier any intimation that they're controlling the entire process, bean to bar, on Pier 17 is misleading at best.

Brad -

A bit of confusion, perhaps. You wrote this software to run your business (i.e., a customized ERP program that does inventory, POS, etc.). Does it also control the machinery? That's the question I think Mark is responding to below and the interest of Omar, the OP.

From previous comments you've made about the value of investing in high-tech equipment on the manufacturing side (e.g., digital probes in roasters), my guess is that your application is strictly a management application, not a process control application.

What I find fascinating about this is that they invested a boatload of money on projects like this one that were not on the critical path of actually making chocolate. Despite what they may say, they are not making chocolate - bean-to-bar in the factory.

So, while it may be cool, what's the point?

Jim:

When is the next cacao festival in Ilheus? June 2012? Let's see if we can organize a group of TCL members to join the celebration ... and visit the Fazenda Venturosa.

:: Clay

Valerie:

Try this source . I am not sure what their minimums are, but it looks like they cut to order. It's acid-free and archival, so probably food contact safe, but you'll want to check to make sure.

A new kid on the block (In some ways literally a new kid as the person behind the confections being sold is 23-year old Shaineal Shah)opened up in SoHo in the past two weeks - Xocolatti. Despite his young age, the chocolates show a definite sophistication belying the maker's age, drawing on several cultures, including Indian.

The store is located on Prince St, west of Thompson Street, making it literally right around the corner from Kee's and just a few short blocks from Marie Belle and Vosges and another reason to make SoHo a part of any NYC chocolate walking tour.

While the confections themselves offer strong competition for the more established players in the 'hood, one thing that makes Xocolatti stand out is the design of the store, which measures only 150 square feet.

One of the challenges in any shop is storage and at Xocolatti they have turned necessity into virtue by incorporating the boxes waiting to be filled with chocolates into the fixtures and furnishings of the shop. The boxes literally line the walls.

The shelving units create a grid and the boxes fit within this grid creating an additional complex geometry. You can get a hint of the geometry looking in from the outside, but unless you're paying very close attention, it's not immediately obvious what the elements of the design are.

Shelf units (some of which contain backlighted signs, see the photo below) extend from the grid breaking the plane - offering a way to display the confections on sale.These shelves are highlighted by pin spots from the ceiling, causing the pieces to jump out at you, highlighting the fact that many of the pieces are decorated with luster dust.

and ...

You can see that different box sizes are used in different areas of the grid to create patterns within the grid. One next obvious step is to vary the color of the lids of the boxes seasonally to add variety to the presentation. Plus - you always know what your inventory of boxes is!

I've been to many countries and been to lots of stores and seen hundreds of different methods of presenting and merchandising chocolate. While I like the traditional elements of a store like A l'Etoile d'Or in Paris and the masculine austerity of La Maison du Chocolat - this little jewel box of a store in SoHo is one of the most innovative - and attractive - stores I have ever been in.

However, it's also true that you can't eat the boxes, so when you visit, look for Indian-inspired treats such as chikki slates - a very tasty take on chocolate-covered toffee. The saffron nut chikki features a hint of cardamom that adds a bright floral/vegetal note - coupled with a pleasant sticky/chewy texture and a nut combination that consists of almond, pistachio, and cashew - that distinguishes these from other toffees. In a very good way.

A solid debut from a young new competitor who's bringing in influences from outside the chocolate world in exciting ways to mix things up.

Daniel:

There are many resources here - and on ChocolateAlchemy.com - that can provide you with a starting place and guidance. However, there is no substitute for just diving it and doing it. The best way (the only way, really) to learn is from experience.

There is a tendency to think of cocoa beans as being precious and having enormous value. (If you're paying $10 or more a pound they are pricey - consider making the investment in purchasing a larger quantity so you don't worry about ruining them.) They are just ingredients. Just as any chef can be expected to burn or otherwise ruin an expensive piece of fish or beef - or truffles or whatever - as they are learning, you should expect to ruin some beans. They are just ingredients. Over 3 million metric tons were harvested last year (about 7 billion pounds). A "ruined' batch of beans is not "wasting" them if you learned something, and a couple of pounds out of a couple of billions is not all that much - won't you agree?

One of the most important things to have in your journey is a journal and write everything down. Weigh the beans before you start roasting them. Weigh them after. Mark down times and temperatures. Weigh the nib after cracking and winnowing and then the liquor after grinding. Get in the habit of documenting everything.

If you're in any doubt during the first run, over-roast rather than under-roast. For most people, over-roasted chocolate tastes better than "raw" chocolate. And some chocolate makers are known for their heavy roast profiles (e.g, Franois Pralus).

Like anything worth doing well, it's going to take time to feel comfortable with the materials, equipment, and processes. Work with it, don't fear it.

Nat is correct in saying the Selmi is a nice machine as has been covered elsewhere on TCL. There are machines that are less expensive (also Italian) with similar or better feature sets.

The system appears to be aimed at someone who's never set up a chocolate kitchen before, but the equipment is scaled for someone who has a lot of business (100kg/hr production in shell molds is a LOT of pieces). So - it's a good shopping list for someone starting out but I would make different choices (and save boatloads of bucks) if I was just starting up and didn't already have a solid book of business in excess of $100,000/yr.

Stu:

Do you have direct URL to the page? The site is not the easiest to navigate.

Thanks,
:: Clay

Shana:

Brian has given a very good description. Temperature is less of an issue than humidity. Although you don't need the remote Internet monitoring part of this, the following article describes plugging in a humidity sensor to a dehumidifier to keep the humidity within a good range:

http://www.iobridge.net/wiki/tutorials/remote-control-over-the-internet-with-local-automatic-control

Keeping the air circulating is also important; a dehumidifier can help with this.

The plans John Nanci is circulating are pretty good and you should be able to produce something for not too much work and not too much money that will be a huge improvement over the Crankandstein/hair dryer combination you're currently using.

I am working on a combination sheller/winnower that is very inexpensive (looking to bring it in for under $100 in parts) and that has a lot of advantages over the two step approach that is based on the Crankandstein. I intend to publish complete plans and BOM (bill of materials) before the end of the year.

:: Clay

The JustLuxe web site recently posted a list of ten chocolate factories to explore around the world.

Problem is - the list is a mix of actual places where chocolate gets made, confectionery factories, plus a museum and at least one retail store where no chocolate of any kind (neither chocolate nor confectionery). Surprisingly, the US takes three of the top ten spots - Mast Bros, Theo, and Tcho.

The slide show is here . Please post your thoughts/reactions to the selection.

The JustLuxe list begs the question ... what chocolate factories (actual places where chocolate is made, not candy/confectionery factories and places where chocolate is only sold or venerated) would make it to your top ten list? Especially if you got the insider guided tour. And let us know which ones you've already checked off on your your bucket list - if any.

Also - what's your favorite chocolate factory tour story?

Mine just might be taking brilliantly fresh macarons off a speed rack and passing them through the chocolate (called Melissa) used to make Pralus' Barre Infernale Lait and eating them messily ... at 6:30 in the morning. Chased with a double espresso we are talking the true breakfast of champions.