Is Xocai everything it's made out to be?

Clay Gordon
@clay
08/01/08 04:48:35PM
1,680 posts
Up front: I am not a fan of Xocai and the company that makes and markets it, MXI Corp. I don't believe in promoting chocolate as a panacea for what ails you. I don't believe in MLM businesses, and I am tired of their reps contacting me and trying to clue me in to the next best thing since, well, since chocolate.So, it did not surprise me when I saw this article published in the Sydney Morning Herald about obstacles MXI reps face in their climb to financial freedom.What do you think? About the article? About the product; anybody tried it? About the company; any ChocolateLife members an MXI rep?:: ClayPS. I met Dr Warren in 2006 (or maybe before then) at a trade show in Las Vegas. I am very aware of who he is, his background, and the claims he makes for chocolate. I have read a lot of his writings as well as the research he references. I am also very aware of the company's products and if I believed in them and thought I could make money selling them I would have jumped at the opportunity over two years ago and been near the very top of the pyramid. But I'm not and I didn't. I don't believe chocolate is supposed to be virtuous. The fact that there are health benefits is a bonus, not a reason. When I eat chocolate I want to eat the best I can find. If I want antioxidants I consume fruits and vegetables or take a vitamin.


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
clay - http://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/

updated by @clay: 04/10/15 11:51:41AM
cybele
@cybele
08/03/08 02:04:06AM
37 posts
I've resisted reviewing it on my blog, merely because I get so much spam from the company's minions as it is. (I've banned all mention of it in the comments on the blog since I had a nasty incident two years ago when I first reviewed Dove of all things.)I've tried other fortified chocolates and find them chalky or waxy or simply lacking the chocolate qualities I love.Like you, chocolate is for enjoying. If I need something extra in my diet I'll eat it or take it as a pill.I'm still curious about it, because I do believe that you can create healthy snacks. (I might just need to adjust my thinking that it's not chocolate, just some confection.)
Alessandra
@alessandra
08/03/08 11:11:42PM
3 posts
It's interesting that this should come up now. I was just contacted by one of their reps a couple of days ago. I've been so busy with work that I didn't do anything about it. Now I'm glad I didn't. I really don't know much about the chocolate, but I don't like being bombarded by any company, no matter how good their product is.But I agree with the other poster, I really don't care about the health benefits of chocolate. I want to enjoy it.
Jeff
@jeff
08/13/08 08:31:07PM
94 posts
Oh god. This is scam, has always been a scam and reeked of scam the moment it went up. I have had so many laughs at these people expense over the last two years it pains t me to think people actually buy into this garbage.First of all, like you said clay, any health benefits chocolate may have are a bonus--NOT the selling point. It is all part of this delusional "raw chocolate' movement. If one more company starts exploiting people for "raw chocolate' and the health benefits I am going postal.There is no such thing as RAW CHOCOLATE. In order to make chocolate the beans must first be fermented---that is a cooking process. All these raw food folks are nut jobs if they think that buying nibs is raw chocolate. The stuff has been fermented and then roasted. truly raw and dried cacao beans are friggin nasty and are basically inedible. 'nuff siad.PT Barnum was right.
Jeff
@jeff
08/14/08 09:35:16AM
94 posts
Ok....lest play semantics..........So the upper limit for raw food is 122F?......well then that leaves out cacao. The fermentation process for cacao often reaches into the 160's and above. It is a cooking process no matter how you slice it. yes the heat is caused by the fermentation which is used to break down the thick skin through an enzymatic process, but it is cooking the innards of the bean. Stick your hand in 160 degree water and see if you dont cook.You say one of the major roles of cooking is to kill organisms; as a life long chef I disgaree. The major role of cooking for me is to make food taste good. I like raw foods too but a pan seared mahi mahi with a ginger sesame crust is a thing of beauty. A quickly grilled lamb chop --still bleeding rare(118F) and mewling if possible- is ambrosia. Cooking is an art form elevated by humans to not just kill the mold and mildew of spoiled food but too enhance and transform and elevate.Cacao that has not been 'cooked" through fermentation tastes aweful and even then the nibs need to be roasted to have any intrinsic flavor. That alcoholic/winey purple bean is just unpalatable for me. a nice slow roast to bring out the nuances of the bean are what I dig.
Jeff
@jeff
08/15/08 10:23:42AM
94 posts
Sorry to have offended you.We are headed down this path
Eric Durtschi
@eric-durtschi
08/15/08 10:37:03AM
38 posts
One of the things that truly separates great chocolate from good chocolate is this fermentation process. Just like Samantha said, if the temperature gets too high during fermentation it can actually "cook out" some of the intrinsic nuances in each bean. This is why most, great, chocolatiers actually go to the plantations so they can confirm that the fermentation meets their exact specifications, coaxing out the maximum potential in the beans.
Randy Compton
@randy-compton
08/16/08 05:03:20PM
1 posts
I am so glad you brought this up. I just discovered Xocai and was impressed by their claims and other claims by scientists in the community. Unlike you, I really like the taste of their chocolate. However, like you I am wary of MLMs and found that money seems to often bias people to the honest truth. If it is so good, why doesn't Xocai just sell it to retailers?I do remain curious about the health benefits of chocolate in moderate dosages. Isn't there a reason to drink a glass of red wine if it is good for you? Sounds like a win-win situation that could be the same for chocolate, no? And if so, why not get the best quality chocolate that has the best taste and the best health benefits?Personally, I would rather eat a moderate amount of chocolate than take a pill. Either way, I'm still wondering about Xocai...
Alan McClure
@alan-mcclure
08/16/08 06:13:23PM
73 posts
For what it's worth, chocolate connoisseurs almost unanimously agree that:The best tasting chocolate is made from fermented and roasted cacao.Scientists would probably almost unanimously agree that:The healthiest chocolate would be made from raw, unfermented cacao.You can see the problem.
Sydney
@sydney
08/29/08 07:15:08PM
3 posts
A friend in VT recently told me about Xocai, and I read all their stuff. The pyramid business put me off, but I do think their chocolate is something special. It is not just the cold-processed cacao beans, but also adding the acai berry for extra anti-oxidants--equiv of eating a lot of spinach or blueberries--and also no caffeine and low-glycemic because they don't use regular sugar. Still, it tastes great. Meanwhile, I also discovered David Wolfe's Naked Chocolate book, and then bought some nibs from my local health food store and some agave syrup (again that 's the low-glycemic sweetener from a cactus). I'm now experimenting with my own concoctions but the nibs are pretty good when you just chew them with a squirt of agave. I think it's very cool that cacao beans can be a super food with tons of benefits. Why knock it? Why take supplements if you can eat berries and chew cacao beans??Anyway, that's my two cents. I don't really think Xocai is a scam; I think you go into it with your eyes open and if you're the salesperson type, it might work for you because . . . hey, everyone loves chocolate! Also, I'm a little confused by all the talk of cooking and fermenting and heating the beans because the big Xocai claim and Naked Chocolate's, too, is that you only eat cold-processed cacao beans that haven't lost any nutrients.
ChocoFiles
@chocofiles
08/30/08 08:29:29AM
251 posts
What does "cold-processed cacao beans" really mean to Xocai?
John2
@john2
08/31/08 09:35:51AM
4 posts
Hello all. I found this blog by searching for information regarding Xocai chocolate. It seems to be the only unbiased conversation on the Net! I have learned several things from this thread. Samantha, I especially appreciate the time you put into your comments. I am not a chocolate expert but I am looking for a health-related business opportunity. I was approached by the Xocai folks.I have no clue whether the claims about being 'cold-pressed' are significant. Is being "non-alkanized" important? All of the Xocai products are sweetened. For example, Xocai nuggets are sweetened with raw cane juice crystals. Is this this normal with chocolate?Most importantly (from a business perspective) is the price. For example, the wholesale price of a single nugget (after shipping) is $1.24 (USD). This supposedly compares favorably to other gourmet chocolates. This works out to approximately $110/month if eaten 3 times daily. The retail pricing works out to $135/month. Maybe some on this forum have some insight to this question.Blessings,John
ChocoFiles
@chocofiles
08/31/08 05:20:27PM
251 posts
John,The price per 100G is what I use to compare chocolate prices. So how much does a "nugget" weigh? Or-- to get the end result I'm looking for-- what is the price per 100g?Eating chocolate 3x per day seems excessive to me, and more than the average consumer. I'd be curious to have an estimate of how many grams per day of chocolate consumption that TCL members average. (And then you'd have to take into account our much greater than average passion for chocolate.)Perhaps members on here might also want to share how much they average spending on chocolate per month too.Lastly, I like variety, so I doubt that I'd eat the same brand every day of the month.
cybele
@cybele
08/31/08 05:29:02PM
37 posts
Olorin - like you I like variety and though I consider myself a chocolate nut, I don't eat that much on a daily basis.I've tried other "fortified" chocolates and found that they lacked the fat and mouthfeel that I like so much and felt like work instead pleasure.I don't think I'm in any way normal or indicative of other chocolate lovers in the amount of money I spend or eat. (But I document it pretty well on my blog where I review about 20 things a month, usually 5 high end items in there.)I find the influx of new members that are solely talking about Xocai a little puzzling. There's so much here and so many incredible resources (people who actually visit cacao growing countries, pick out beans and then make actual chocolate) and here we are talking about something that isn't even made out to be a decadent treat.
ChocoFiles
@chocofiles
08/31/08 08:23:31PM
251 posts
QUOTE:"I find the influx of new members that are solely talking about Xocai a little puzzling. "Actually, I was thinking the same thing when I wrote my last post. There seem to be many, many better chocolates than Xocai that we could be spending time pondering (and dreaming about).
John2
@john2
08/31/08 08:29:28PM
4 posts
Olorin,Their two most popular chocolates are the Xocai X Power Squares and Xocai Nuggets. The Square weighs 6g (Xocai recommends 3 squares per serving) and the nugget weighs 12g (1 nugget per serving). The cost per 100g for the Squares is $17.86, $16.07, and $13.10 (retail, preferred, and wholesale). The cost per 100g for the Nuggets is $12.50, $11.25, and $10.29. So, how does that compare to other gourmet or top of the line chocolates?From a business/marketing standpoint, I've seen the products promoted almost like nutritional supplements (hence, 3 times a day) and also like pure decadent chocolate. The appeal to potential distributors is that many people already love chocolate so you are basically getting them to substitute for Xocai. But, that only works if they are already spending over $110 per month!Cybele, the reason for all the activity in your blog regarding Xocai is due to the Xocai Network Marketers creating 'buzz'. MXI (the parent corp) does no traditional but instead relies on word of mouth marketing through its distributor force.-John
Sydney
@sydney
09/01/08 03:26:40PM
3 posts
Hi, Samantha. The term "cold processed" is not actually mine; it is the claim on Xocai's literature that my friend in Vermont gave me. I took the words from one of their brochures that says first "Xocai products are produced with unprocessed, non-alkanized, non-lecithinized cacao powder," and later in the brochure under the ingredients for Xocai: The Healthy Chocolate, it says "Cold-processed Belgian cocoa powder."Just wanted to clear that up because I am not, repeat not, making any claims for Xocai. I think they probably make a decent product that some people are all miffed about because of the whole pyramid scheme type business and because of the price. But it has nothing to do with me.
Sydney
@sydney
09/01/08 03:34:07PM
3 posts
Hi, John, I was looking at Xocai from the same standpoint as you when I was in Vermont with my friend, but once I got home and did a little homework, I decided that I just wasn't going to be able to sell such an expensive product--not in these economic times. I canvassed some friends and neighbors and they all looked at me like I have two heads. Then again, I didn't have any samples; I'm not very good at the selling aspect anyway.Also, just to let you know, I found one site that is underselling (if that's the right term) this Xocai chocolate and selling it at less than the distributor wholesale price that you discussed and that my friend buys it for. I just sent her the link because she only buys it to eat it, not to sell it, so she may as well save money. I don't know how this one site can sell it for less than wholesale, but they are: $98 for 100 nuggets and that includes the shipping.Best of luck to you.Sydney
John2
@john2
09/01/08 09:54:29PM
4 posts
Samantha, thank you for the detailed reply. It really is very helpful. I wonder whether the average Xocai distributor understands cold-pressed, cold-processed, non-lecithinized, non-alkanized, blanched, unfermented, sun-dried, non-roasted, etc... I know that it left me bewildered. I don't think it is necessary to understand these matters in great detail in order to sell Xocai (some would argue it is a hindrance) but I needed to understand it in order to make a decision on whether to build a business.Sydney, $98 a box for the nuggets is definitely discounted. Maybe the person she buys from gets the nuggets in bulk. Still, even at $98 it is an expensive addition to my diet and/or supplement regiment. Like you, I can not get past the notion of asking others to spend this amount of money. I tried unsuccessfully to get data on the percentage of chocolate going to consumers versus distributors. I suspect the percentage of true consumer is much smaller then the percentage of distributors, but that is just my opinion.-John
Clay Gordon
@clay
09/04/08 09:10:25AM
1,680 posts
Sam:There is a reason for the ads showing up. Google "knows" the contents of this page and because Xocai is mentioned it serves up ads for Xocai. At some point I will get rid of the Google ads so it will go away as an issue.I also have heard that 120-125F/50C is the upper limit for temperature before things are cooked. One challenge I have with this is that pathogens on the outside of the beans are not killed at these temperatures. I've heard that some raw chocolate companies wash their beans in hydrogen peroxide but I have no idea what the risks/benefits are to this. Recently, I've become interested in UVC light as a means to kill the pathogens effectively and safely. There are companies here in the US that make equipment that seems perfect for this use.


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
clay - http://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/
Teresa Cordero Cordell
@teresa-cordero-cordell
09/05/08 03:21:25PM
13 posts
That certainly is disappointing.. I've been curious about the Xocai for a time now and am glad I looked no further. Chocolate has enough "health" benefits on its own without it being exploited in this way.
updated by @teresa-cordero-cordell: 06/20/15 02:25:19AM
Marie
@marie
11/15/08 02:02:00PM
2 posts
I bought the Xocai chocolate about a month ago. I liked the chocolate. I thought all the chocolates that they let me sample were wonderful, and yes, I signed up for two boxes. This was a 60 day supply, it cost $289.00, AND you have to sign up for their auto ship program as well (which means you agree to buy one case a month and they will use your credit card to bill you). THIS WAS THE LEAST EXPENSIVE OPTION they offered. I liked the product, but the only reason I agreed to it, was because my friends invited me to their home for the Xocai presentation and I didn't want to leave with out spending something.I do not believe that this company will survive because the consumer has to perceive that they are getting a fair price for the commodity they're consuming. This is Business and Economics 101! No amount of any kind of "chocolate" is worth what I paid. Let's face it, Xocai is selling chocolate - nothing more!Through out my life I've seen people get wrapped up into different network marketing companies. These companies depend on people being entrenched to their marketing techniques to a religious extreme. They paint a picture in the minds of the people that support them of how much money they can make. They go to meetings which have been described to me as "soul moving". These people must buy into the company with faith that they will impacted greatly, not only in their everyday life, but their pocketbook too. This is the basis of any network marketing system. Xocai is no different. They have a product that is grossly over-priced, but if the "distributor" (your neighbor or friend who most likely just signed up a month ago...) can make you believe that you too can make a huge monthly income at this, of course you're going to love the chocolate! If you really believed that this product could pay your bills and make you healthy - then who wouldn't go for it - Right? 50% of a network marketing system, such as Xocai, has to sell the "you too can make a fortune at this" as well as "their product has amazing benefits", or they wouldn't be able to stay in business.I Have a BS in Business from Portland State University. Joining a Network Marketing system would NOT be the way I would choose to make a living. I am a sales representative for my company, and would never ever want my target market to be selling products to my family and friends. Xocai's gross profit margin must be incredibly large! I would not be surprised if the chocolate that they sold to me for $289.00 cost them less than $20.00 to make AND ship. It all comes down to basic business strategies, I firmly believe that ripping off the consumer will soon result in negative profits! If I had purchased this product at 1/3 of the cost... I wouldn't have been so steamed to have written all this. I know a "good deal" from a "bad deal" and spending almost three hundred dollars on 3 lbs of chocolate is INSANE. For the record, I have canceled my auto-ship and will never buy Xocai again at the cost they are currently selling it.
Marie
@marie
11/15/08 02:53:42PM
2 posts
Hey John,The reason that three chocolates per day seems excessive to you, is most likely because you saw that each one costs $1.24 and pictured them to be a normal size bar. GET THIS JOHN, the size of the $1.24 chocolate is approx. the same size as a Hershy's Kiss. Yep! Can you imagine paying almost $4.00 for three Hershy's kisses EVERY DAY!!You have to admit that 3-Hershy's kisses a day doesn't sound excessive.............
John2
@john2
11/16/08 11:47:49AM
4 posts
Hi Marie,I read your other Xocai-related post and it seems we share a similar experience, except you arrived at your conclusion much more quickly! I agree with your comment that "I do not believe that this company will survive because the consumer has to perceive that they are getting a fair price for the commodity they're consuming. This is Business and Economics 101! No amount of any kind of "chocolate" is worth what I paid. Let's face it, Xocai is selling chocolate - nothing more!"Regarding Network Marketing, hard to argue with what you said. I've done a lot of investigation and soul searching. If you are interested in trading stories email me at jszydlo1@tampabay.rr.com-John
Chocolate Heaven
@chocolate-heaven
11/20/08 11:38:00AM
1 posts
I agree with a point made earlier - If this chocolate is so good, why are they not retailing it in the shops?I have bought some products before from MLM companies, and some of them are ok - but grossly overpriced for what they are.
Bruce Toy (Coppeneur)
@bruce-toy-coppeneur
11/21/08 12:18:43AM
15 posts
Xocai is made with sub-standard cocoa beans not unlike "Fair Trade" chocolate. Two effective methods to market awful beans.Within the past four years, the shares of three 'small' chocolate companies were bought out by "Big Chocolate". The quality of the bars (and price) was inevitably reduced. They are now sold through mulit-national drug and health food stores. The inferior chocolate of the Mulit-Nationals seems less dreadful.Haagen Das and Ben and Jerry's made "Big Ice Cream" look bad which meant the Mulit-Nationals had to take them out. The quality of these premium brands was inevitable reduced and now the sub-standard quality of "Big Ice Ceam" is less obvious.Power, greed, deception, control
Dove Chocolatier
@dove-chocolatier
11/26/08 09:26:50AM
3 posts
I two have been hounded by those from xocai, they have evan added Dove tags,etc to secretly send people to there web sites . I feel that it is not a Company I would want to be associated with, As far as Dark Chocolate having mystical properties,I did run across an science article that all dark chocolate has the antioxidants as long as ate in moderation, so their claims to them only having a healing chocolate to me is false.
Dove Chocolatier
@dove-chocolatier
01/15/09 09:50:46AM
3 posts
OXACI, I don't know how many e-mails I get aday from those Brain Washed people on how there Chocolate is going to heal me of ever ailment,Now to me that is misleading,I got one on Face book from a lady that said her Aunt Was healed from being a diabetic and lost 100 lbs from eating OXACI. Its like they target other Direct sales people to promote there products to. Now they are linking a HTML page to Dove Chocolate Discoveries and you think you are clicking on Dove and Its OXACI. This is Crazy.
Starr Metro
@starr-metro
04/07/09 04:29:03PM
1 posts
This is totally FALSE.Xocai nuggets are several times the size of hershy kisses AND are much more dense - to to mention healthy! Power packed with antixoidants. If you'd rather eat a bushel of spinach - or other roughage - to get the same amount of antioxidants, because that's what you'd have to do, go to it, but don't knock the chocolate way of getting the same benefits.
Tom
@tom
10/02/09 05:52:29PM
205 posts
I found this interesting article:http://www.businessopportunitywatch.com/BOW%20Review%20of%20XOCAI%20Make%20Chocolate%20Your%20Business.htmIf the link doesn't work the article is titled 'Review of XOCAI MXI Corp Healthy ChocolateExtract from Business Opportunity Watch Rating ReviewsJuly 2008 Issue 17'
Sue Ann
@sue-ann
07/22/10 09:45:18AM
1 posts
I thought you might like to see the answer I got from the MXI head office when I asked what temperature Xocai is cooked at:-- The products survive temperatures in excess of 60 degrees Celsius during the molding process. Please keep in mind, that even a temp of a 120 degrees Fahrenheit will not reduce the ORAC value on our products.I replied:That is a strange reply since 120 degrees Fahrenheit is 48 degrees Celsius, and you are heating Xocai to 60 degrees celcius? Raw food is only heated to 48 degrees, therefore you should not be advertising your products as Raw Cacao?. This is very concerning.Xocai replied:We start with Raw Cacao however, we do need to use some heat in the molding process for the solid chocolate or the baked products. The powdered products do not undergo this process.I replied:I would have to think all chocolate starts with raw cacao and undergoes a process of heating. However not all products claim to have raw cacao in them or a special patented cold press technology. Do you not think this is false advertising? It is all about the finished product and there is no raw cacao in it, therefore the packaging should not state raw?I would really like to know If other companies can cook their chocolate at 42 degrees then why should anyone pay so much more for Xocai which is cooked at over 60 degrees?I wish other companies would get their chocolate products tested for ORAC scores because I think that would put an end to Xocai's over hyped marketing ploys and stop future people like me investing so much lost time and money into a terrible company!
ChocoFiles
@chocofiles
07/22/10 12:07:14PM
251 posts
This reply is a classic! It should be put in a Hall of Fame, especially the part about why you spent $289. To me, this post, along with the thread, has made the whole Xocai scheme so abundantly clear that it's a rip-off.Just think of how much truly great chocolate that you could buy for $144/month?
Clay Gordon
@clay
07/22/10 12:32:03PM
1,680 posts
There are a number of misconceptions here.There is no firm scientific evidence about the temperature 118F - considered by many in the raw foods world to be the max temp to which foods may be subjected during processing. This single temperature suggests that the biochemistry of all foods is the same. It's not that simple - a single temperature is waaaaaay too simplistic.The single temperature also ignores the very importants variable of contact time and food structure. A nut with an outer shell could be subjected to a very high heat for a very short period of time to kill pathogens on the exterior of the shell without transferring any of that heat to the nut inside. Even foods with very thin shells (e.g., cocoa beans) can be treated this way without raising the temperature of over 99% of the mass of the bean above 118F. Plus, food with a high water content stays relatively cooler (through evaporative cooling) than foods with a low water content.Also - beware of ORAC. It too is a simplistic measure that taken alone is relatively meaningless. Metabolism is way too complex and individual to make a single ORAC measure generally applicable. Also, there's so much variability in ingredients that it's really necessary to measure every single batch produced to get an accurate score.However, consumers like simple numbers because they are easy to understand and apply. 118F max temp is easy to understand and adhere to. If the temp were different for every single food it would not be so easy.8000 ORAC score per serving has to be "better" than 2000, right?Maybe not. One thing to look at is cost. What' the cost of a serving with 8000 ORAC and is there another way to get the benefit at lower cost. Also, it doesn't matter what's in the food, it matter what metabolites make it into your bloodstream. So - not only might there be a lower-cost means of getting your daily ORAC, there might be a more effective way, too.


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
clay - http://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/

Tags

Member Marketplace


Activity

Xocol855
 
@xocol855 • 6 months ago
Created a new forum topic:
slaviolette
 
@slaviolette • last year • comments: 0
Created a new discussion "Cost of goods produced":
"Hi Everyone, Been a long time member but I have not been in in a few years, the fact is that I had to close down my small chocolate business.. but now is..."
chocolatelover123
 
@chocolatelover123 • 2 years ago • comments: 0
Created a new forum topic:
New Chocolate Brand - "Palette"
Marita Lores
 
Marita Lores
 
Vercruysse Geert
 
Vercruysse Geert