Experience With Flow Wrapper?

Deb Morris
@deb-morris
03/07/17 10:37:45AM
3 posts

We're looking to purchase a flow wrapping machine - looking for suggestions and recommendations. We've been talking for nearly a year with a UK company (Loynds) and hoping someone has specific experience with this company. Thoughts greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
03/07/17 11:17:03AM
132 posts

Hi there!

I just purchased a flow wrapper from a Chinese company called Shanghai Goldsen. The machine just arrived to us in our facility in Wisconsin, USA. It was a very good price -- around 5,000 USD  . It appears to be a very high quality machine. The American and European Machines are definitely very nice, yet they were around$25,000 - 40,000 and that was too much for us.

I would be happy to introduce you to my sales rep in China if you wish.

Deb Morris
@deb-morris
03/07/17 11:38:56AM
3 posts

Daniel Herskovic:

Hi there!

I just purchased a flow wrapper from a Chinese company called Shanghai Goldsen. The machine just arrived to us in our facility in Wisconsin, USA. It was a very good price -- around 5,000 USD  . It appears to be a very high quality machine. The American and European Machines are definitely very nice, yet they were around$25,000 - 40,000 and that was too much for us.

I would be happy to introduce you to my sales rep in China if you wish.

Thanks - I'll take the contact info!

Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
03/07/17 11:43:08AM
132 posts

packmachine.steven@gmail.com is the email of my rep. His name is Steven Cui. Please tell him Daniel from Wisconsin, USA referred you. Thank you,

Daniel

Daniel Haran
@daniel-haran
04/26/17 01:02:41PM
49 posts

USD $5,000 sounds amazing!

Are you still happy with it? Can you show us the end result?

Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
04/26/17 01:34:15PM
132 posts

Yes! I am actually very happy with this machine. We posted a short video about a month ago on the Mayana Chocolate facebook page.

This machine is currently wrapping our product well and opening many new doors for us in the kind of lower price point products we can offer . We don't have to worry about getting backed up with product as we wait to hand wrap each bar.

There are many manufacturers of flow wrappers in China and this is a good one in terms of customer service and the product they offer. We were experiencing some difficulties as we we were getting set up and Steven, the sales rep, took some videos for me.

You can of course find more advanced machines which are more automated with more bells and whistles from companies like Bosch, but they start at $40,000 . This machine cost me $5200 and that included a gas flush hookup and a printer. Shipping was $1400 from China to Wisconsin, USA . It took a solid month to get it here from there to here.

I plan on ordering again from this manufacturer for maybe some vertical packaging machines -- for packing bags. If you reach out to them, please tell them Daniel from Wisconsin referred you. I don't work this company -- just a satisfied customer.

I enjoy talking machines, packaging, chocolate, etc... so please feel free to keep the questions coming.

Dallas
@dallas
04/26/17 09:36:15PM
29 posts

Thank you for sharing this, Daniel.

I've also been in the market for one of these machines, and would be interested in emailing your contact. I'll let them you know referred. 

Best.

Daniel Haran
@daniel-haran
04/27/17 11:20:36AM
49 posts

Yes, thank you for sharing! :)

Now I go back to my expansion plan and wonder if I can afford one this year...

Eric K. Meredith
@eric-k-meredith
04/27/17 03:56:02PM
9 posts

Hello,

A real good Web Site for Chinese Equipment is Alibaba.com. They have a good number of companies that make equipment for the Cocoa Processing Equipment & Chocolate makers equipment at real good prices for pretty good & well built equipment. The only thing bad is the LACK of Instructions. Example I purchased the Behmor 1600 Plus that came with very detail instruction, So if you are a beginner you can pick it up very quickly. Also where I purchased it from had very detailed direction on how to work it & support. But with some of the Chinese companies. The Instruction Manual is VERY THIN. Example I used to purchase my Cocoa Butter to make Chocolate. But I had just bought a Cocoa Farm here in Ghana & wanted to start Processing Cocoa Products & of course making Chocolate. But I bought my FIRST Hydraulic Cocoa Butter Press from a Chinese company. I MUST SAY it is a VERY GOOD Machine & the PRICE was GREAT!!!! But since I have NEVER MADE COCOA BUTTER BEFORE I am TOTALLY LOST!!!. I received a FOUR (4) page instruction manual that dealt with the Press. But nothing about Cocoa Butter. I did get 2 separate videos of the press with (NIBBS). So I have a REAL GOOD Cocoa Butter Press & now I MUST try to find someone who has made Cocoa Butter to show or explain on its use. That is the ONLY problem purchasing some of the Chinese Equipment are the Support in the use of their machines.

If someone could help me learn to use my Press I would be very GRATEFUL.

Eric

Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
04/28/17 09:12:05AM
132 posts

Thanks Eric for sharing your experience here. Hopefully, there is someone on this forum that can help you. Maybe some of the Bean to Bar people here can help you figure out this machine and process. It would be great if someone could chime in and offer some technical support to Eric here.

Eric does bring up some good points. I hired a technician who understands flow wrappers to set up our machine. I did not just plug it in and start working. The benefit of working with a domestic company is that they will have the technical support to get you through. There are companies here in the USA that sell Chinese Machines and offer the support for the machines they sell. It does come at a price though of many more thousands of dollars. For my budget, going direct was the only option and then hiring a technician to set it all up.

I also think it is important to do some research on each overseas supplier. If they won't supply you with a reference of a customer who has their machine, I would not work with them. When I was making my purchasing decision, I interviewed  US owners of different machines from different suppliers in China. The supplier I went with was the one who got the best reviews. 

LUV Ice Cream
@luv-ice-cream
04/28/17 08:36:51PM
12 posts

Daniel,

Was this a 250mm max web width flow wrapper or 350mm one? Just curious. We are in the process of purchasing a 250mm machine & I can totally relate to your experience. 

My main question for you is sourcing custom printed multilayer (I am assuming yours is a multilayer) film.  I am also assuming your film is custom printed with the logo of your bar, nutritional/ingredient info, bar codes, etc.. Did you source that in China as well or did you go local?   I am having a devil of a time getting quotes on what I need.

I am thinking 2.5mil to 3.5mil thick PET / VMPET (metallized PET)/ LLDPE film; flexographic plate printed.   

If you an share your experience with this and give me some supplier ideas, it'll help me gauge how the estimates I am getting are falling in line.

Thanks, Daniel.

PS: Where in WI are you? We are in the Twin Cities just over the river from you :)

Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
05/01/17 08:49:34AM
132 posts

Hi there!

Your ice cream seems amazing! We are located about 2 hours away from St. Paul in rural Northwest Wisconsin -- Spooner to be precise. You are welcome to come for a visit anytime.

In terms of the flow wrapper, we purchased a 320 flow wrapper. The 250 could have also worked. I wanted the extra flexibility of the larger machine. Some of our products in the future may be a little taller and I wanted a machine that could wrap that along with the small stuff. Where are you purchasing your machine from? Who is the manufacturer you are working with?

I work with packaging suppliers both domestically and in China. The manufacturer who does the very best work is Elvis at Zooly Packaging in China. He can be reached at elvis@zooly.org . Francisco Migoya recommended him and I have been extremely pleased with everything he and his team has made for us. It is not just about price.  The quality is of the highest level. They make every sort of packaging -- rigid boxes, folding cartons, bags, films, etc.... We are waiting on our first shipment of printed film for our flow wrapper. It will be here in about 2 weeks. Our film is a laminated film with a a metallic layer on the inside and a different film on the outside. It has the ability to be hermetically sealed -- which I believe is the ability to hold a gas should you wish to have gas flush.

I also work with Eugene Rivera at Quality Bags in Addison, Illinois. I get unprinted film from him. He really knows everything about film. He can advise you on the right specs for your products. He told me he makes the film for Vosges Chocolate.

Both of these suppliers are really good. Please tell them I referred you.

Glad to keep the conversation going!

CAT B
@cat-b
05/05/17 09:48:31PM
16 posts

Thank you SO MUCH for this discussion. 

CAT B
@cat-b
05/08/17 04:32:48PM
16 posts

Hi Daniel - Wondering if you can elaborate on the operations of the printer and gas flush components of the machine? 

Does the printer operate real time as it's wrapping pieces? i.e. prints prior to wrap - or do you have to pre-print the film? Any issues/limitations with the printer?

Assuming the gas flush operates from a nitrogen tank...how many tanks do you go through? Maintenance? Cost of tanks? Any other issues?

Thanks!

CAT

Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
05/09/17 08:07:18AM
132 posts

I'm still pretty new to owning this machine. I am working with a nitrogen gas provider to get us started with the gas flush process. I am still waiting on that. I am definitely glad I paid a little extra to get the gas flush hookup and the printer.

I have not used the gas flush hookup yet. I need to get a delivery of nitrogen tanks from Praxair. I don't know what they recommend. I would love it if there was someone on this site who was knowlegable about gas flush. Sebastian? Are you out there?

I'm glad I have the printer too. That prints as the film is packaging our product. It is meant for codes only i.e, date codes, batch codes, etc...

We have been packaging quite a bit this week and things have been going pretty smoothly so I am still quite happy with this machine.

CAT B
@cat-b
05/09/17 05:10:08PM
16 posts

Daniel - Thanks so much for the insight and the reference co. I'll investigate. I'm in talks now with your man in China and he has been very helpful- so thanks again. 

CAT

Daniel Herskovic
@daniel-herskovic
05/09/17 05:15:23PM
132 posts

Good luck to you Cat. I think you will be pretty happy with what you decide to purchase. Glad to help in any way.

Thanks!

Daniel

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