Forum Activity for @ChocoFiles

Fondeurs

Posted in: Tasting Notes

As I review chocolate bars I make note of whether a company is a "bean to bar" company or a "fondeur". I'd like to use this thread to ask whether certain companies are fondeurs or b2b. I want to be clear the I use the term "fondeur" as purely a descriptive term that Clay suggested to differentiated these companies from bean to bar makers. I don't intend this term to have any derogatory connotations; it is meant to be descriptive not qualitative.It would help if we do a little homework first, though. First, check the TCL "Chocolate Maker" database to see if the company is bean to bar. There are a few fondeurs listed there too. Second, check any websites for information about the company in question.I've attached my list of Bean to bar makers and Fondeurs as it has more listed than the database at TCL.
updated by @ChocoFiles: 05/21/15 18:20:02

Valrhona Chuao 2002

Posted in: Tasting Notes

I'm currently tasting and reviewing a Valrhona Chuao 2002 bar, but I've got several questions.1) Why is it named "2002"? Is this for the year the beans were harvested? Is this really true or is it a marketing ploy?2) The package says "Made by 01-2004" which seems to indicate that the bar was made by January 2004. Was it? If so, how is it still good almost 6 years later? and if this bar can age so well, why do most bars have a "Good before" date on them?3) I know that Valrhona made the first Chuao bar, but then Amedei acquired the exclusive rights to the beans. I'm just wondering where Valrhona got their beans for this bar (and even when). I suppose from the same source that Bonnat uses for their Chuao. Hans-Peter Rot delves into this mystery in a blog article at Cocoa Content . (I think the article is at The Nibble too.) Casey also touches on it with an article on Chuao in her blog The Chocolate Note . Does anyone have any more information on how Valrhona got these magic Chuao beans?And here's my personal rating of my enjoyment of these 3 Chuao bars:Amedei 10. This is still my #1 favorite of over 360 bars that I've reviewed. Sublime.Bonnat 7. It didn't even taste like the same beans.Valrhona 6. At 65% the flavor profile is seriously dampened. This is still my favorite Valrhona bar, but I'm not a very big Valrhona fan.
updated by @ChocoFiles: 04/11/15 16:20:33

Best Chocolate Book | Best Chocolate Authors

Posted in: Opinion

Here's the first book on the Chocolate Bliss list :THE TRUE HISTORY OF CHOCOLATE by Michael Coe and Sophie CoeAsk around for the best book on chocolate history and you'll wind up here. It is the best!! Written by Yale Professor of Anthropology Emeritus Michael Coe and his late wife Sophie Coe, the knowlege of Olmec, Maya and Aztec historical context, artifacts and source material is deep. Deep, deep, deep! This book propsed the theory that chocolate production started in the Olmec civilization (not just the Maya and the Aztec) and is a source of study for many of the world's best chocolatiers. Amazon/Alibris.

Best Chocolate Book | Best Chocolate Authors

Posted in: Opinion

There's a great list of books at Chocolate Bliss by TCL member Suzie Norris. It looks pretty comprehensive.

Best Chocolate Book | Best Chocolate Authors

Posted in: Opinion

Well, a good place to start would be DISCOVER CHOCOLATE by Clay Gordon (Description by Chocolate Bliss) This energetic chocolate blogger/author/travel guide focuses on tasting chocolate - how to explore and understand chocolate's full range of flavors. The website www.discoverchocolate.com offers many resources, including a networking site for chocophiles, THE CHOCOLATE LIFE. Amazon/Alibris

Chocolate, language, and thought: A pilot study

Posted in: Opinion

I'd like to re-word my answer as the chocolate that I've enjoyed the most. I don't like using qualitative words like "best" to describe chocolate. Tasting chocolate is a subjective experience based on my tastes and experience. For example, I don't much care for the red wine/red fruit taste of many bars, but others like that. To each his own preferences. It's totally impossible to determine the definitive "best" chocolate.But of the 353 bars that I've tasted and reviewed the one I've enjoyed the most was... Amedei Chuao.OK, I know that I join lots of people on this bandwagon, but I think there must be a reason for this. To me it was sublime. What intrigued me the most is the tremendous range of flavors.I've attached my review notes. Even though I use numerical values to quantify my enjoyment those are all to help break down my own personal enjoyment of different categories. The rating isn't generated by the score, but it merely informs it. I give a rating in comparison to the other chocolates I've tasted.If you email me I'll try to answer the rest of your questions too. I don't have much time right now.I find this topic very intriguing because I often find it quite hard to describe and differentiate what I taste. Plus the descriptions are only by analogy (like red wine, mango, tobacco, roast, ham...) and these often break down. (For example, I've never tasted dirt, hay, or leaves...) I look forward to your findings.

Hello Everyone, allow me to introduce myself

Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

Mark,Thank you so much for this well written response to Xocai (on September 16, 2009 at 9:52pm). I'm so tired of their far fetched claims that are all aimed at making money for their representatives. You've set the record straight and I've copied this for my files. Thanks for taking the time to write this out! It's very helpful.

Bay Area Chocolate Community

Posted in: Opinion

You should definitely get information from Brady (who is a member of TCL) for your article. He's very knowledgeable, and knows all about the chocolate scene in NYC.

The Fine Art of Chocolate ... Criticism

Posted in: Opinion

From Gwen-"I suggest in typical maternal fashion, that the industry should play nicely......By using kindness and temperance in reviews, it gives the producer time to develop and grow into a better producer."Wise words. Meanness and vendettas should never be used. Anyone who makes the expenditure of time, money, and sweat to make chocolate can't be all bad. I think that all negative reviews should be gentle, subtle, and even use inference to give the message.But, if done in the right spirit, it's still helpful to all concerned to know about really bad chocolate.

The Fine Art of Chocolate ... Criticism

Posted in: Opinion

I think that Gwen and Langdon both make excellent points. The difference lies in the character of the reviewer and their intention with the review. But if I find a reviewer that I trust I'm glad to listen to his/her negative reviews. I'd rather save my money and taste something else.That's why I've really appreciated lists such as " The World's Worst Chocolate Bars "by TCL member and seventypercent.com reviewer Hans-Peter Rot. I'd like to know what to avoid. (Although I thought that the Theo Venezuela 91% bar was the best bar I've tasted [of the 5 I've tried] in the 90-99% class.)

The Fine Art of Chocolate ... Criticism

Posted in: Opinion

I'm sure that this is generally true, but I wonder if Amedei charges more for its Chuao bar because of all of the awards and great reviews that its received? (I also wonder why all Amedei products are so expensive? I've assumed that it's just their marketing I bet you'd be surprised. IMO chocolate makers would be foolish not to read reviews. An informed review is a great source to know how well they've succeeded in their goals. I also surmise that a review from a person with your stature in the industry carries a lot of weight. I can imagine that if you reviewed a bar as really bad that a wise chocolate maker would take steps to change what was bad in it. (OK, they might only listen when quite a few trusted reviewers said the same things, but you'd still be an influential part of that.) I can even imagine that if Clay said sth like, "I wish this bar tasted more like X" they might even make some changes.As a well informed average consumer I find chocolate reviews, blogs, and awards to be great sources of deciding what I'll buy next amid the hundreds of choices out there. So reviews do have an eventual economic effect. That must be why chocolate makers send credible people free chocolate to review.

Intentional Chocolate: Fact or Hooey?

Posted in: Opinion

Pure hooey.

Hawaiian Chocolate

Posted in: Tasting Notes

I'm glad to hear that your marketing will be improved so that you can reach a wider market with your excellent chocolate! Waialua Estates is one of the best I've tasted and reviewed (of >310). My review notes are attached. I look forward to tasting it again. Is it available anywhere on the mainland other than at Chocosphere?P.S.- I bought my first Waialua Estates from Melanie at Sweet Paradise in Kailua Nov 2008 when I was visiting from NC. My real name is Lowe.

Hawaiian Chocolate

Posted in: Tasting Notes

I'm extremely skeptical about the claims that Hawaiian Vintage Chocolate make for the benefits of "intentional" chocolate.

Hawaiian Chocolate

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Are you sure about this? I wonder if the Original Hawaiian Chocolate Factory was one of the first, if not the first in Hawaii?Malie Kai has marketed their bars well so it's easier to find.IMO the Waialua Estate chocolate by Dole is the best Hawaiian I've tasted. But it's not marketed well, so it's hard to find info about it on the web. The Chocolate Bar database has the most info I could find and there are some discussions about it on the seventypercent forums too.

Hawaiian Chocolate

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Susie Norris sheds gives some information about Hawaiian chocolate in her blog post .

Hawaiian Chocolate

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Any reviews of Original Hawaiian Chocolate Factory? I'm currently tasting their Criollo Dark bar.How about Malie Kai? They seem to be a fondeur. Can anyone confirm that?How about Private Reserve? I'm not sure if they make bars or just chocolate sauce. They say their chocolate comes from beans grown on the North Shore of O'ahu.

Hawaiian Chocolate

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Has anyone tried Hawaiian Vintage Chocolate ? If so, what do you think?Are they bean to bar?Their website is vague about the beans they actually use. (Not a good sign.) For example, they say here . "As agricultural conditions vary from year to year and season to season, each year's product will contain a different percentage of Hawaiian grown cocoa beans. " What other beans are they using to supplement when the Hawaiian supplies are low? What island of HI are their Hawaiian beans grown on?I'd appreciate more info from those who might know.
updated by @ChocoFiles: 04/21/15 16:15:32

Top 10 Questions You'd Like to ... Ask Norman Love

Posted in: Opinion

Should cacao be reclassified from the traditional 3 (Forastero, Criollo, Trinitario) into the 10 categories suggested in the research study *Geographic and Genetic Population Differentiation of the Amazonian Chocolate Tree*?The suggested new categories areAmelonado - BrazilContamana - PeruCriollo - Central America, Venezuela and ColumbiaCuraray - EcuadorGuiana - GuyaneIquitos - PeruMaraon - Brazil (Amazon) and PeruNacional - EcuadorNanay - PeruPurs - Peru http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0003311

Raw chocolate-- what is it really?

Posted in: Make Mine Raw ...

When I calculated it I came up with different nubmers:rawguru .32 oz (9.1g) bar = $87.58 per 100g ($875.80/kg)Sacred Chocolate 2 oz (56.7g) = $16.67 per 100g ($166.70/kg)For more perspective, Domori Porcelana is $18.60/ 100gAmano Cuyagua, $15.62/100gThe most expensive of the ~240 chocolates I've tasted, is Amedee I-Cru, $26.40/100g.

Health Benefits of Chocolate

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Samantha,Thanks so much for another informative, lengthy, and well thought out response! Everything you wrote makes a lot of sense. I really appreciate your contributions here.

Health Benefits of Chocolate

Posted in: Tasting Notes

On another thread Samantha posted some very helpful information. She said:--------------------How much cocoa do you need to eat to get a health benefit?The short answer is: not much!Health benefits have been associated with the consumption of 100-300 mg/day of procyanidins. (Procyanidins are a category of antioxidants with various health-giving properties. Cocoa is exceptionally rich in procyanidins, and this is the category of chemicals that gets people excited about cocoa's health-giving potential).So, if you wanted to consume 200mg/day of procyanidins, you would need to eat somewhere in the vicinity of:5g per day of non-alkalised cocoa powder, or10g per day of 100% cocoa liquor, or15g per day of 70% cocoa solids chocolateThese amounts are based on procyanidin levels in non-alkalised cocoa products that contain no dairy.Ref:Gu et al (2006) Procyanidin and Catechin Content and Antioxidant Capacity of Cocoa ...It's worth noting that these numbers are based on procyanidin levels in commercial cocoa and chocolate products from "major brands" that have undoubtedly been processed in all of the normal ways (i.e. the cocoa has been fermented and roasted etc).--------------------I think that this subject is worthy of it's own thread.First, let me say "Thank you" to Samantha for your extremely well researched and very helpful information. (For some reason there's no way for me to reply to that post on the Xocai thread.)I'd like to ask Samantha, or others, a related question-- do you get more health benefits per gram by eating plain cacao nibs? Isn't chocolate made from the nibs? If so, wouldn't that make nibs the most "unprocessed" cacao product available?I'm new to this so I find all of the information that y'all provide to be fascinating! It's great to be able to glean from your knowledge and research.
updated by @ChocoFiles: 05/18/15 02:44:33

Is Xocai everything it's made out to be?

Posted in: News & New Product Press

This reply is a classic! It should be put in a Hall of Fame, especially the part about why you spent $289. To me, this post, along with the thread, has made the whole Xocai scheme so abundantly clear that it's a rip-off.Just think of how much truly great chocolate that you could buy for $144/month?

Is Xocai everything it's made out to be?

Posted in: News & New Product Press

QUOTE:"I find the influx of new members that are solely talking about Xocai a little puzzling. "Actually, I was thinking the same thing when I wrote my last post. There seem to be many, many better chocolates than Xocai that we could be spending time pondering (and dreaming about).

Is Xocai everything it's made out to be?

Posted in: News & New Product Press

John,The price per 100G is what I use to compare chocolate prices. So how much does a "nugget" weigh? Or-- to get the end result I'm looking for-- what is the price per 100g?Eating chocolate 3x per day seems excessive to me, and more than the average consumer. I'd be curious to have an estimate of how many grams per day of chocolate consumption that TCL members average. (And then you'd have to take into account our much greater than average passion for chocolate.)Perhaps members on here might also want to share how much they average spending on chocolate per month too.Lastly, I like variety, so I doubt that I'd eat the same brand every day of the month.

Is Xocai everything it's made out to be?

Posted in: News & New Product Press

What does "cold-processed cacao beans" really mean to Xocai?

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Also, in your example you have "1. 56g total wt". But the nutritional information is based on a serving size. For Dagoba bars the whole bar is usually 56g but the serving size may only be half of that. Was your example using Serving Size from the nutritional info or the total size of the bar?

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Drew,

Thanks for the reply but I think you missed a crucial point that wasn't made clearly enough in my OP. You can only do this with dark chocolate that has no other inclusions such as milk powder, fruit, nibs, or nuts added.

The only 37% bars I have ever seen are milk chocolate bars, so they have milk powder and other ingredients added, including some that have fat in them. You CANNOT use this method with any bars that have inclusions. Does that make sense?

A better explanation is below:

---

Its actually pretty easy to figure out the percentage of cocoa butter in a chocolate bar. Note, though, that you can only do this with dark chocolate that has no other inclusions such as milk powder, fruit, nibs, or nuts added. You also have to have a package with the nutritional information that includes the fat content (in grams) because the fat is from cocoa butter. Follow these steps:

1) Note the serving size (in g)

2) Calculate the amount of cacao per serving by using the cacao percentage. Keep in mind that the total serving size = cacao + sugar + (optional other ingredients, 1-2%).

The amount of cacao = serving size X cacao percentage (as a decimal number).

Ex- a 40 g serving X .75 = 30 g cacao.

3) Note the Total Fat (in g)

4) Divide Total Fat by Cacao Amount in step 2. This gives you a decimal. Then convert this decimal number to a percentage (i.e. 0.52 is 52%) and then you have the cocoa butter percentage.

An example, Fresco Dominican Republic 223, 72%:

1) Serving size = 45 g

2) Cacao percentage = .72

3) Weight of cacao = 45 x .72 = 32.4

4) Fat content = 16.2 g

5) 16.2/32.4 = .50, so 50% cocoa butter

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

So, I used the method above and calculated the cocoa butter percentages for more than 300 bars... then I discovered that method was flawed, so I threw away all of that data. I had neglected the fact that the serving size was the total weight of cacao plus sugar plus any extra ingredients (vanilla and/or soy lecithin)

Here is the correct method:

1) Note the serving size (in g)

2) Calculate the amount of cacao per serving by using the cacao percentage. Keep in mind that the total serving size = cacao + sugar + (optional other ingredients, 1-2%).

The amount of cacao = serving size X cacao percentage (as a decimal number).

Ex- a 40 g serving X .75 = 30 g cacao.

3) Note the Total Fat (in g)

4) Divide Total Fat by Cacao Amount in step 2. This gives you a decimal. Then convert this decimal number to a percentage (i.e. 0.52 is 52%) and then you have the cocoa butter percentage.

An example, Fresco Dominican Republic 223, 72%:

1) Serving size = 45 g

2) Cacao percentage = .72

3) Weight of cacao = 45 x .72 = 32.4

4) Fat content = 16.2 g

5) 16.2/32.4 = .50, so 50% cocoa butter

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Green & Black's White was a mistake that shouldn't have been in there. That was done early in my data collection process and has now been removed, as will any other White bars. White can't be included because of the other added fats. Thanks for pointing that out. Please let me know of any other discrepancies or errors.

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

From Langdon "what exactly does "Percent" indicate? And how about "Cacao fat"?"

Percent = the percentage of all cacao that is printed on the label

Fat = from the nutrition facts. Calculated from Fat grams / serving size and changed from a decimal to a percentage. e.g.- 14 g fat in a 40 g serving = o.35 or 35% fat

I'll try to explain somewhere where these numbers come from. Thanks for the advice.

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Langdon,

Thanks so much for that long and very informative reply.

What do you call the part of the cacao seed that isn't fat?

More to reply to, but I'll start with that.

Lowe

updated by @ChocoFiles: 09/08/15 00:33:53

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Is there anything other than fat in cocoa butter? Or is cocoa butter 100% fat?

Here's information I got from The Nibble : Cocoa butter is the natural vegetable fat present in the cacao bean... It solidifies into a yellowish-white fat, solid at room temperature." Is this completely accurate?

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

I'm moving some info over from another thread because I think this is better home for it:

Lowe:

In my experience, the general practice seems to be that the higher the overall percentage, the higher the relative percentage of cocoa butter (without increasing the cocoa solids much).

[My guess on why they do this is it that this it's for economic reasons. That assumes that cocoa butter is cheaper than solids.]

Clay's reply:

Lowe:

Some terminology because I know you love this stuff.

What we think of as cocoa powder is what the industry technically calls "non-fat cocoa solids." Cocoa butter is also cocoa solids - so it's good to be careful in differentiating between the two when the goal is to be accurate and precise.

Cocoa powder almost always contains cocoa butter. A "high-fat" cocoa powder will consist of 20-24% fat by weight; a "low-fat" cocoa powder will consist of 10-12% fat by weight. It's really expensive (in part because it's time consuming) to go much lower than this. Cocoa powders making "non-fat" claims can do this because of labeling regulations that allow "non-fat" claims when the amount is below a certain threshold per serving (usually less than 1/2 gram).

FYI generally, cocoa butter is generally more expensive than cocoa powder- often much more expensive.

By Lowe:

Clay,

Thanks. Using the most precise language possible helps to avoid confusion, so I'm all for using the most accurate terms possible.

Unfortunately, many people aren't that precise or use terms in the wrong way. I think I took my use of these terms from an article in The Nibble : "Cocoa butter is the natural vegetable fat present in the cacao bean. Beans are approximately 52% cocoa butter by weight (the amount varies by the variety of cacao bean ); the rest is cocoa solids"

My line of inquiry started with wondering if there was any correlation between fat content and my enjoyment level (designated by my rating). Thus far I haven't really found out any such correlation, but I still want to differentiate them. So overall a cacao bean has fat and non-fat. I'm trying to be even more precise than cocoa powder since that also has some fat in it. For example, the Mast Bros and Rogue Piura bars that I'm currently reviewing only list cacao/cocoa beans and sugar as their only ingredients. What are the best terms for the 2 components of the beans? How about "cacao fat" or just "fat" for one? What is the other part? Solids, powder, liquor, or mass all seem problematic since they actually have some fat. Is there any term for the non-fat part? It sounds like "non-fat cocoa solids" may be the closest even if that contains some fat.

BTW, I've also been using "cocoa butter" as synonymous with "cacao fat" although I guess they're not really identical. I assume that all of the fat is in the cocoa butter, but that cocoa butter has more than just fat. Is that accurate?

Thanks for your patient help with splitting hairs in this minutia.

From Clay " FYI generally, cocoa butter is generally more expensive than cocoa powder- often much more expensive ."

So why do think there's generally higher fat content in higher percentage bars? By adding extra cocoa butter the makers are decreasing their profit margin. It doesn't seem like it's for taste because IMO extra cocoa butter weakens the taste. But maybe the makers just think most people couldn't handle that much "non-fat cocoa solids". What's your opinion?

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

JCandy et al,

I've attached a file with info I've collected on the percent of cocoa butter and cocoa solids for some of the bars I've reviewed. I also give my rating of my enjoyment of these bars. In general, the bars with a higher fat content were lower on my enjoyment scale.

(If you're curious, "Class Rating" refers to a system I devised to compare similar type chocolates. Some of my "Classes" are Darks: <59%. 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 100%, White, Milk, Mint, Spices, Spicy Hot, Nuts, Nibs, Orange, Other... I did this as a way to compare bars of a similar group such as "White". This allows me to know which bars I liked best in a certain group even if I don't particularly like that kind of chocolate. "White" is a good example because I don't particularly like White chocolate but there are some bars I gave a White class rating of 10 because if I have a whim for a White bar then that's one I enjoyed the most. I hope this makes sense.)

You can also find more of my review files at Choco Files .

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

I'm not sure who you're asking permission of or who would grant it, but you can surely use any information that I've provided.Would you please post the URL of your site here, though, so that we can all see it?

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

I'd like to share a few preliminary observations. To the seasoned experts this is probably nothing new, but just remember that I'm a neophyte who's having fun learning about all of this.So far I've gathered the fat content data on 55 bars. Here are a few early observations:-The fat content varies from 30-50%-The higher the cacao content the higher the fat content. That makes sense since there is less sugar, so to make it more palatable there is more fat.-I see no relationship between fat content and my quality ratings. But since I don't like >80% as much as bars in the 70-79% range and I generally like >90% even less, even though these have the highest fat percentages they have lower ratings (according to my preferences).

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Another one from Alan McClure on the same blog..."In fact, it is possible, for example, to have a 74% bar that has less cacao--due to added cocoa butter--and is therefore less robust in flavor, than a 71% bar with no cocoa butter added."I know that for many of you this is nothing new, but I'm posting this for the sake of those like myself who are newer to this chocolate world and still have lots to learn.

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

I just read this by Alan McClure of Patric and thought it was relevant to this discussion..."Sometimes if the cocoa beans have too low an amount of cocoa butteras in the case of low quality cacaococoa butter must be added,". (Read it on the Patric blog .)

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

QUOTE: "This is why I don't understand the suggestion that fat masks flavor."I was certainly not implying that this is a general principle. The idea of fat masking flavor is probably only true in a few instances. Hans has said elsewhere that Hachez uses excessive cocoa butter to cover poor quality beans. That was what I was referring to, but it's the only incident that I'm aware of.I was also not implying that a high fat content is necessarily bad. It may be that a higher fat content makes a chocolate better. I'm just wondering if there is any relationship at all. I suspect that there's a minimum amount of cocoa butter needed for a proper mouthfeel.Anyway, with the chocolate I'm tasting I've started to track the fat/ cocoa butter content when the information is available. I'm curious to see how the cocoa butter content correlates with my preferences.

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

QUOTE: "The best tasting chocolate I have ever had has zero soya lecithin and a high fat content. "Gwen,What chocolate is that?

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids

Posted in: Tasting Notes

My ultimate objective with this is to take another step forward in my quest for finding great chocolate. I'm wondering if any correlation can be drawn between the amount of cocoa butter and the quality of the chocolate.My initial impression is that there isn't any direct correlation, especially since added cocoa butter is sometimes used to mask inferior beans.What do you think?