Chocolatiers = Re-melters?

Since most of the chocolat i eat is usually dark and in its bar/block form; Callebaut, Cluizel, Cote d'Or, Lindt, Leonidas, Debauve & Gallais, Teuscher, etc...(once in a while i do enjoy some with fillings), I just assumed that most of the chocolat companies in the states were fondeurs.I think the person might have been trying to tout the superiority of her product, small barrels make big noises, but i would take it with a grain of salt.I have tasted a few chocolats here that were done from bean to block and wished they had just been fondeurs; the chocolat was most unripe, to be kind.Just do what you love and people will enjoy the end product regardless.

This is a "hot" topic, and I enjoyed this immensely. I humbly consider myself an artisan "Fondeur" who prides herself in making Belgian styled pralines. I, at times, have tried to blend different varietal chocolates to what ever ingredients (fresh) I create. Of late, I have been creating exotic ingredients and coming up with my own concoctions, that turn out to be marketable. Its not only the knack of a chocolatiere to marry the blended cacao, but to be able to marry the ingredient (ie: herb, fruit or nut), and the cacao, to the palate of the consumer that makes an artisan!

I think you shouldn't bother about this at all. It's their business not yours. Just don't listen to them? that's all;)______________________________ cohiba cigars

While many other Chocolatiers use Chocolate made by American, Belgian, or Swiss Companies.Just because I use a chocolate product and re-temper it doesn't necessarily make me a re-melter.That is just a simple way of saying and yes, degrading and derogatory statement, that what I do is not skilled.Best Regards,Shawn Alter - Chocolatier/Owner The Chocolate ButterflySenior Marketing Director Hake Plastic Molds & Equipment

So what are you called if you re-melt and mix a couple of kinds of chocolate from same company or different company?I have melted 100's of pounds myself and am not offended, I do temper it, decide which of my antique molds to use, how it should be decorated and packaged. So I didn't grind the beans-oh well.I think that would be called a chocolate manufacturer!

I also take offense at this new term "re-melter". Many of us are artisans and it is all about beauty and flavor delivery. Frankly, I have yet to find a good "bean to bar" chocolate that was very palatable. No, I have not had many.But this new bean to bar industry is like the coffee bean roasters of the 1980's. I wish them as much luck. Maybe in 20 years everyone here in the US will be familiar with and prefer GOOD chocolate! Especially as the level of understanding is raised.Who really cares where the chocolate comes from? My customers don't. They just want an exceptional taste, across the board, that is consistent, smooth and exciting. Why get an attitude about the two different types of chocolatier?When I lived in Africa, I learned a term in Yoruba thet translates as "I see that you are working and it is good for all of us". There was absolutely no judgement on the work itself.

I just started reading the posts and haven't made it all the way through. I am a "re-melter". I wish I could start from the begining (sometimes). However I find the sampling fun and I really like it when the shipment comes in and sitting before me are hundreds and hundreds of pounds of chocolate. It is truly a joy to take a wonderful product and add your own personal touch for your clients.It is even better to catch their thoughts with just the flash in their eyes! A potter starts with a hunk of clay (made by someone else) and turns it into something wonderful. If this is what a re-melter is, thank you. But I prefer the term enhancer:To make greater, as in value and taste; improve with sophistication

I just came across this thread, and it made me chuckle. I put up a blog post on this very subject a while back, where I articulated my objections (so I'll spare you now). I'm positive Tcho isn't the only place where I've run into this attitude, but they're the ones that sparked my reaction. Sigh...some people.

Unless you're talking about a large company like Godiva or Ghirardelli ( http://adwido.com/view_content?vkey=5a5999faf08d326074082b4c18a777c2 ), you may just benefit for publicizing this company with your experience.

" Re-melters" are responsible for most of the sales aren't they

Ah, sisterly quarrels! You gotta love them!

Alan, I'm surprised to see this post because I thought back in March you knew about me making chocolate from Jamaican beans.

I have come to the chocolate making world late in my life. I have been an artist, an engineer and a policy maker. I came into the chocolate world for the purpose of helping Jamaican farmers get a better price for their chocolate and to see if I can start a sustainable business both in Oakland, CA as well as stimulate sustainable business in Jamaica because as a policy maker I have been preaching sustainable development for decades. I have enjoyed learning how to ferment and hope that sometime before I am too feeble, I can focus some years on the variations in the art of fermenting.When I was in art school, I studied ceramic art and painting. In ceramics we made our own clay. As a painter, I didn't make my own paint. I never thought myself less of an artist as a painter because of that. I think it's interesting that technical wrangling over materials didn't occur in the fine art world. The focus was on the quality of the final art work.The real interest I have as an artist/engineer/sustainable development advocate/chocolatemaker and chocolatier is in the quality of the final product and transparency to the public about what process went into it so that we can compete fairly (is that an oxymoron?). If someone's final product is superb and they control every aspect from bean to bar to bonbon, that deserves recognition. If someone's final product is superb and they use chocolate processed by someone else, it doesn't reduce the quality of their final taste treat. It does reflect a difference in investment and complexity in control of the many elements. But like a painter, the chocolate artisan who chooses his/her supplies thoughtfully to capture the qualities of those supplies in their final more complex product is no less an artisan than someone who makes it from beans.
updated by @nancy-nadel: 01/27/15 23:29:06

To create an edible piece of art -visually& tastefully- skillfully choosing the best ingredients. That is a true "chocolatier".

I agree somewhat ... BUT there is a skill that requires knowing about what to "melt" into your chocolate (and what chocolate you are "melting" in the first place). It is kind of like saying all coffeemakers are the same because it is all coffee. But obviously there are many different types of coffee and ways to blend them to inspire different tastes. My favorite chocolatier is Katrina Markoff, founder of Vosges. She was the first in the US to really think about chocolate in artisanal form. She is featured today on girl crush. http://girlcrushoftheday.blogspot.com/2010/02/katrina-markoff.html

I thought she was created as being one of the first in the US to add unique flavors to chocolate? Maybe she was the one who popularized it to the general public?
updated by @sonya: 06/12/15 06:03:04

I would love to tell THEO that the only REAL chocolate maker is GOD, they are just one of those people that roast, shell and crush so that people can buy it from them to make confections. No offence meant to chocolate makers other than those rude ones among the nice ones. I am tired and in a sarcastic mood, forgive me.
updated by @ilana: 09/07/15 17:45:39

I think that by accident people have been referring to the original "bad-mouther" as THEO, when in actuality it is TCHO. I know some of the folks from Theo and I really doubt they would ever be this disrespectful to chocolatiers.

Agree that TCHO is apparently the culprit, not THEO.

I love that quote!

From what I hear using "invert sugar" is another way of extending the shelf life of ganache. Wikipedia tells me that invert sugar has lower water activity than sucrose and this is why it imparts a longer shelf life.Not sure what "longer shelf life means". Two months for Joseph Shmidt without preservatives seems surprisingly long. I would love to see their list of ingredients.

It definitely seems a bit shallow to me and just bad business practice. No one gets to the top by putting others down or their products. That is how I feel as there is enough business for all of us.

Sandra;This is quite a long thread, and there's a lot of good points made throughout. Of the many on this forum, this entire thread is a worthwhile read.Cheers.Brad.

My two-cents on the topic: I've interviewed several top chocolatiers in Belgium for my website and none of them made their own chocolate from the bean. in Belgium, there are two companies which provide the bulk of couverture chocolate: Belcolade and Callebaut. The cocoa beans go there, they process into liquid, drops, etc. and ship it out to some of the best chocolatiers in the world who then take the chocolate and make their own magic with it. I haven't talked to any of them who didn't tell me where they get their chocolate from. In fact, at one producers, I saw bags lying around with the source company's logo on it. I think it's a given in Belgium that some produce chocolate from the bean while others take it to the next level.

I was with you until the part where you said that "some produce chocolate from the bean while others take it to the next level."I think that there is plenty of excellent chocolate these days that doesn't need to be taken to a "next level." In such cases, though confections made with this excellent chocolate may be delicious and amazing, the flavor of the original chocolate, I believe, can certainly stand on its own. Put simply, why do we have to say that one is better than the other? The way I'd like to put it is that both can be equally amazing, but in different ways and for different reasons.Alan

Alan,I agree with you...I wasn't thinking about the fact that well-made chocolate can stand on its own and indeed doesn't need another level. I was primarily referring to the business of couverture chocolate, which I think is what the original post was referring to (maybe not?) Callebaut does produce its own line of chocolate bars for cooking, eating, etc. But its couverture chocolate goes out and is converted to bars, pralines, and other delightful delicacies.

Alan makes a good point. There are times when I want a bonbon or truffle but there are times when an absolutely plain bar is satisfying, complex, sophisticated and excellent - one is not better or higher level than the other. I make them all and find that plain, bonbon or truffle satisfy different taste needs/desires at different times.

I'm not an authority, just a chocolate lover who is fascinated by thegrowing, making, tasting of chocoolate and the whole experience. That said, I was REALLY disappointed (but I totally blieve it) to learn about the ridiculous snootiness of the chocolate maker in question. I don't care if they "re-melt" the chocolate. If we could rely only on bean-to-bar, then none of us would be eating it. Recchiuti makes great chocolate. Period. So do many others. Enough with the snootiness. What's next? "My mother can beat up your mother?" Quality matters to me, and I'm glad there's attention to that from many more chocolatiers.

Keith;

While I can't speak for the woman at the event, I CAN tell you that as a chocolate maker and a chocolatier, I have spent 5 long years educating people about the differences between my business and other chocoaltiers, as well asthe nuances in flavour that cocoa beans create. Making your own chocolate gives the chocolatier infinitely more control over the quality and taste of the final product.

Also, the industry in general has created an image in the average consumer's mind that chocolatiers make chocolate. Case in point: I recently watched a chocolatier television pour chips into a double boiler, and proclaim "this is how you make chocolate". WTF???? Are you kidding me???

Is wanting to differentiate your products from that of your peers "snooty"? I don't think so - especially when you have the potential to create a product of a quality that far surpasses your peers. Anyone with minimal training (aka homemakers, and grannies) can take a mediocre chocolate and make goodchocolates (chocolate confections). However let's see the same unskilled "chocolatier" acquire good beans, roast them perfectly, remove the shells, and grind them intoa perfectly smooth, decadent chocolate BEFORE making confections out of them. The end result can be absolutely stellar.

IF quality matters to you as you claim, then I would suggest that you definitely seek out snooty companies that make their own chocolate.

Cheers

Brad

I suppose those that use sugar from C & H are just re-sweeteners. Please don't tell me someone out here is processing raw cane into sugar, ok, maybe our friend in Hawaii... He could be the nations only purist.
updated by @richard-foley: 01/26/15 03:49:14

I have been a Chocolatier for over 20 years and have made truffles the old fashioned way that the professionals have taught me. Like with everything "new and improved" tries to replace "what has been for generations" in an effort to make way for new ideas and create new businesses. There is room for everyone's ideas, new or old, and there is no need to make anyone feel less than or inferior to make yourself feel superior. I have learned a long time ago you can't please everyone all of the time and the most important opinion is your own.

Bean to bar is a relatively new term and did not exist originally as part of the "Chocolatier" function. Chocolate manufacturers made the chocolate and the Chocolatiers were the artisans that created the decadent fillings that were the original products desired in the first place. The chocolate was merely a thin coating used as a wrapper, if you will, so you could pick up the truffle without getting it all over.

My advise to you is to do what you love, make the product you love, make the best product you can and don't be attached to the good opinion of others.... they tend not to last very long! "When you judge others you don't define them you define yourself"

Chocolate is fun and there is enough room for everyone...... Go out and keep the world sweet!

Hi Brad, and Happy New Year,

For some reason, your post of several months ago escaped my attention, and in many ways I agree with you. It's fine to differentiate your products from those of your peers. Terrific and good for you -- I'm acapitalist, too. But you can learn to do the same thing without turning people off. Your passion for your chocolate comes through and I like that. But if you can make an elite chocolate and do so without elitism, and people will not only love your chocolate -- they'll love your company. The approachcan be made to beas easy to swallow as the chocolate, is all I'm saying.

As for Recchiuti, he does some nice things with chocolate,andsome of his bars are are very good, and I wouldn't want to have standards that are so incredibly high that I never eat anything but bean-to-bar. An analogy: do youforego buying a car until you can buy a Rolls? Of course not.

I absolutely agree with you on this: there are plenty of "chocolatiers" who probably make their stuff from Baker's chocolate or some such stuff,pretty it up with lots of interior decorating, and jack up the price. Big mistake, to be sure, and it does muddy the field for legitimate people. BTW --I actually DO seek out companies that make their own chocolate. (I'm with you about Lindt, and regarding Godiva, well, the empress has no clothes and hasn't had any for ages.)

Indeed, I actually tried to purchase SoChoklat online, but it would appear that you don't deliver to the US, because I couldn't arrange delivery anwhere but Alberta. Do you market here? If not, it's a bit like saying "we're the best anywhere, and you can't have any." See what you can do to sell some to us.

BTW -- I fully agree that a side-by-side tasting of several bars from one company is a great way to go. I've even done it first thing in the morning, as recommended by Chloe Doutre-Roussel. At first I thought the ideawas nuts, until I had bought some bars while on a business trip and I did the tasting one morning in my hotel room. I was blown away by the heightened acuity in my taste buds. I highly recommend the early morning tasting idea, but it's not for the faint of heart.

Cheers,

Keith

Keith;

Thanks for the feedback. At this time we don't ship anywhere outside of Calgary for the simple reason that the demand here in Calgary (over a million people) is enough to consume all that we make. Choklat isn't a bulk producer. Economically there's simply no reason to broaden our reach to other markets when our current demographic consummes all of our supply.

I'll be the first to admit that differentiating our product and our strategy from that of our peers over the past few years has been difficult.The strategy hasin no way meant to make other chocolate makers look bad, however I know it comes across that way in some readers' eyes. The best analogy I can think of is that of the wine industry here in Calgary. Imagine for years that the consumer has been sold "red wine", "white wine", and "zinfandel" by EVERY wine store. No brands. No Sommoliers, No vineyards, no nothing. Everybody gets the same red, white, and zin and has been led to believe that the wine stores all produce their own wine because it's bottled differently from store to store. Inside however, the product is more or less the exact same from the same supplier. Then along comes a wine store that imports and sells wine properly, and employs a sommolier to help educate consumers about the differences that grapes, region, weather, soil, fermentation, etc play in the production of their varieties of wines. The new wine store clearly opens the consumers eyes to the vast array of taste possibilities. At the same time it's mere presence seems pretentious to those who are happy with the ol' "stand by" red, white and zyn.

There is simply no way for that new wine store to differentiate its products without disclosing to the consumer in even the most subtle way that the traditional way of buying wine has been misleading. The current stores do NOT make the wine they sell, even if their name is on the bottles! Some consumers will be upset at the new store for "attempting to make the existing peers look bad", while others will applaud the new bold direction, and honest disclosure.

This has been the case with my business. It has doubled in size since I first opened my doors, and this year will see even more growth yet. It appears that while a few feathers get ruffled, most people appreciate the honest approach to things. I would hazard a guess that those whose feathers are ruffled are either:

1) big fans of our peers who are overly defensive, or

2) people who don't care about the truth or quality of anything they put in their mouth.

What I DO know however, is that my outspoken approach to promoting chocolate here in Alberta has caused our largest competitor to change the verbiage on their packaging from "Manufactered in Calgary Alberta" to "Manufactured from imported ingredients", and at the same time OTHER small chocolatiers are now beginning to promote the brands chocolate they use rather than tell people it's "their" chocolate.

As far as I'm concerned, if my peers are making changes because of what I'm doing, then I'm definitely doing something right, and those who don't like my honest, candid approach, can crawl back into their hovel and suck a lemon. (not that I'm saying you don't appreciate it Keith! Haha!).

On the topic of early morning tastings.... Hmmm... Is that before or after brushing my teeth? An apple or orange BEFORE tastes a whole heck of a lot better than after! I wonder if chocolate is the same.

Cheers

Brad

updated by @brad-churchill: 06/15/15 09:58:55

Do the tasting BEFORE brushing. OK to have some water, but room temp water -- nothing cold, or the chocolate will take longer to melt. It's the most intense way to taste chocolate -- even if it's impractical for most people. Also not good if you're not a "morning person".

Thank you for this message!

Just means that the Tcho employee does not understand the complexities of 're-melting'!

Really has it comes to terms that define what we do? I am a chocolatier, I melt chocolate to create new and exciting things. Why would that be a bad thing? Call me a re-melter if you wish. LOL

We are all artisans in our own way regardless of what we do. " re-melter " sounds negative but in the grande scheme of things does anyone care? I don't think the average consumer or even a more savvy chocolate lover would really care what you call it.....As long as it taste good, looks good and people enjoy it, that's what matters most, no?

Be proud of what you do. Just my two cents.

updated by @dirke-botsford: 07/04/15 16:51:23

I have been making chocolate "at origin" from tree-to-bar in Costa Rica for about 3 years...the last 1.5 years really starting to produce a viable amount to support our family. Our challenge has been defining our chocolate as something better than the "rustic" chocolate that is not tempered or conched.

I just wanted to agree with Dirke on his two cents. Whatever you do, do it well and if you buy chocolate to use for your truffles or bars then give the "chocolate maker" some credit. Since we are also cacao producers, we are very aware of each stage of the chocolate process....not to say we are experts. But each player is important and those who are doing it all...know that everyone deserved all the credit and "Value added" to making chocolate.

I understand the bean-to-bar chocolate makers difficulty selling to "re-melters"...we have had several chocolateers, and pastry chefs who want to use our chocolate for their products because it is from Costa Rica and is superior in quality. However...we cannot produce that kind of volume and need to make the maximum value added. I only will wholesale to people who are going to give credit and pay fair value all the way to the producers.

Ok, this discussion is getting pretty old......let's wrap it up and close it out. Bean to Bar producers orcreative pastry chefs crafting chocolate confections from wonderful chocolates--- we are all artisans making beautiful products for other to enjoy---- let's move on and get some more productive discussions going!!

Andy Johnson

Belle Fleur Chocolates

I feel compelled to ad my 2 cents here as I have had to explain to non-industry folks at chocolate tastings I have conducted the difference between a chocolate producer and a chocolatier/confectioner. We all know the difference, but we also know that creativity and craftsmanship may be expressed in many forms. While M & M/Mars is a volume producer of mass-market commericial finished goods, they also roast a lot of beans. Conversely, the good folks at See's Candies have never roasted a bean and they are driven to quality as much as the next guy.

It is paramount the we educate the consumer on their options and teach them to differentiate so that they can make decisions based on knowledge and not solely advertising, negative or otherwise. The information must be conveyed thoughtfully, objectively and accurately. I do not condone 'bashing' as a form of education. We are not the Chocolate Police but it is not inconceivable that a little respectful policing is in the best interest of the industry.

Roast, melt...whatever you do, do it with integrity, passion and creativity and advocate for an open and collegial environment for all to thrive and succeed.

--
Jim Greenberg, Co-President
Union Confectionery Machinery Company
Jim@unionmachinery.com
www.unionmachinery.com

Jim is on the money. Do whatever you do with passion and integrity. I melt, re-melt, flavor, grind, blend... I also happen to make movies, make a good dad, and try to make a good living.Just tell the damn truth, and be who you are, respect yourself, and your competitors. Make Chocolate, and make it your own.P

I'm amazed that people are still replying to this after 3 years. Jim, your response is the best one yet. Thank you.

According to their FaceBook Company Overview, the original company in question still uses the term 're-melters'. I know for a fact they have lost business with a few of us re-melters for use of this term and way of thinking.

That's okay though, with today's market, there's plenty more to engage business with.